MO'N on Goals on Sunday

[Gareth]

Feel free to re-write history now that we have all fallen out with Lerner but nothing will ever excuse Quitty's calculated action to create the maximum amount of damage on our football club with the timing of his gutless act.

What happened then and what is happening now are two separate issues - back then was belt tightening and trying to add structure, now is just giving up whilst trying to run it to the bone.

With the money he had at his disposal in a time unlike now where half the league were beaten most weeks before taking the field he 100% failed by not delivering champions league football.

[OCD]

History will show that after Villa he went to Sunderland followed the same transfer spending and left them in the shit just like us..

Imo with budget he had here 6th was a bare minimum requirement and that's all he achieved ,any other half decent manger would have managed the same.

I always think the state that a manager leaves a club in reflects a lot on them. Look at O'Neill's record -
Leicester - They got relegated after he left and it took them several years to get back
Celtic - a 2-team league back then and they didn't win for several years after he left
Us - constant relegation fights for 6 years and may finally go down this year
Sunderland - like us, constant relegation battles and have been barely surviving

[supertom]

I don't blame O Neill for leaving. The timing and manner of it though was shitty, but clearly he could see what was on the horizon and like anyone with half a brain decided to run before his reputation hit the shitter. He left as top 6 manager. Now granted his follow up gig didn't end too well (boo hoo) but if there's one thing O Neill isn't, it's naive. He probably knew what was coming.

I don't really blame him for our financial state either. O Neill didn't sign the checks. He didn't control the budget. He might have signed Habib Beye yes, but if the chairman gives you carte blanche you're not going to refuse it. We wasted money under O Neill but his better signings made us a hell of a lot back. None of our managers since have had as much of a success rate since. Lambert will dine out on signing Benteke for the rest of his days, but we never made money on any of his other signings and nor will we. McLeish's signings were disastrous. Houllier was clever in identifying and really pushing to get Bent. Now granted we paid a hell of a lot for him and he left for nothing but he kept us up for two seasons.

Lerner is the rotten apple here. He's gone from bumbling and naive, to inept and seemingly now just totally indifferent, like he couldn't give two fucks.

[themossman]

Feel free to re-write history now that we have all fallen out with Lerner but nothing will ever excuse Quitty's calculated action to create the maximum amount of damage on our football club with the timing of his gutless act.

What happened then and what is happening now are two separate issues - back then was belt tightening and trying to add structure, now is just giving up whilst trying to run it to the bone.

With the money he had at his disposal in a time unlike now where half the league were beaten most weeks before taking the field he 100% failed by not delivering champions league football.

You can't say that with any certainty though. None of us know the specifics of the behind the scenes goings on immediately before mon left so we don't know how justified or calculated it was.

But even if I accept that he left in an attempt to derail us, how shocking is it that this succeeded? So, back to Lerner for leaving us so vulnerable in the first place and getting every big decision since then hopelessly wrong.

[ciggiesnbeer]

He made a couple of good points and was smart enough to not touch the actual details of his leaving.

Its worth bearing in mind though that even though he resigned and so was owed nothing he did win compensation from the tribunal as he argued Villa were in breach of contract, so there is something there to his side.

He is still miserable bugger though isnt he? He gives me no good nostalgia watching him speak, which any other 6 place manager would.

[supertom]

He made a couple of good points and was smart enough to not touch the actual details of his leaving.

Its worth bearing in mind though that even though he resigned and so was owed nothing he did win compensation from the tribunal as he argued Villa were in breach of contract, so there is something there to his side.

He is still miserable bugger though isnt he? He gives me no good nostalgia watching him speak, which any other 6 place manager would.

The sad part is, that we so often felt frustrated at O Neill's brand of football, even during the good times, but looking back, we were Brazil 1970 in comparison to the last 4 years. Particularly on our good days away from home with Gabby, Ash and Big John in their pomp. When our counter-attacking game was effective it was a joy to watch.

[pauliewalnuts]

Its worth bearing in mind though that even though he resigned and so was owed nothing he did win compensation from the tribunal as he argued Villa were in breach of contract, so there is something there to his side.

No.

We've had this one 100 times at least. He didn't "win" anything "from the tribunal", the two parties settled. Not the same thing.

[johnc]

History will show that after Villa he went to Sunderland followed the same transfer spending and left them in the shit just like us..

Imo with budget he had here 6th was a bare minimum requirement and that's all he achieved ,any other half decent manger would have managed the same.

I always think the state that a manager leaves a club in reflects a lot on them. Look at O'Neill's record -
Leicester - They got relegated after he left and it took them several years to get back
Celtic - a 2-team league back then and they didn't win for several years after he left
Us - constant relegation fights for 6 years and may finally go down this year
Sunderland - like us, constant relegation battles and have been barely surviving

Celtic won the league in the three seasons after O'Neill left but dont let facts get in the way of your point
Leicster nearly got relegated last year. Was that O'Neills fault?
Sunderland have always been a yo-yo team
Blaming our misfortune   in 2015 for what he did in 2010 is stretching it a bit. EVen Germany was re-building by the 1950s. Although in fairness the Americans were actually putting some money into the place

[brian green]

Which was Lerner's first big mistake in my opinion and the foundations of the Kremlin walls at VP which are only now starting to be demolished brick by brick by plain speaking and open planning for the future. In my opinion it was a black day in Villa history when we accepted the concept of Martin O'Neill being a victim.

[sickbeggar]

He was the wrong man to be given the keys to the Lerner bankvault in retrospect. He gunged the club up with non playing reserves on high wages and never looked likely to have the tactical nounce to break the top4. Add to that buying Heskey at a crucial moment and flogging Cahill in favour of players with half the talent. Guilty as charged for all of that.

The terrible policies afterwards - selling the best players and replacing them with those same reserves and youth players, running the club by wage bill,  the so called Ajax of the north plan that seemed to involved buying lower league players in the hope of selling them when they became superstars (!), the shit managers who either bought into this plan or just went along with it because they liked the money..All of that, Lerner's fault.

 Ironic that though i can't stand the guy, MON would probably be perfect to get us back in the premiership when the inevitable happens

[brian green]

I would sooner stay in the Championship.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Its worth bearing in mind though that even though he resigned and so was owed nothing he did win compensation from the tribunal as he argued Villa were in breach of contract, so there is something there to his side.

No.

We've had this one 100 times at least. He didn't "win" anything "from the tribunal", the two parties settled. Not the same thing.

Mind if we go over it 101 times then? Because I dont understand. Why settle? He resigned, owed nothing. Why would Lerner give him money unless there was something in the contract that was breached.

[stuart445]

I thought MON was spot on there in his assessment of events.Interesting that the majority of Villa fans give MON pelters for his departure yet are now coming to realise that the Lerner they sided with is a million times less trustworthy. MON conceded some time ago that his resignation timing was awful and hasn't put forward his side of events often, if at all,so I don't blame him for hijacking this Sky question with a revisit of summer 2010.

Let the record show, whether it suits your argument or not, that under MON we were top 6 thrice and since his departure have stank out the Premiership like a rotting fish hidden in the mother-in'law's sitting room curtain rail (little tip for you there this Yuletide season).

Did he explain what would have happened if Lerner had done something about his overspend earlier?  No because all that would have done was O'Neil leaving earlier, or did he also explain why he choose the Sunderland job when Quinn had left, thought Not as a football brain would have sussed O'Neil and that wouldn't have been good for Brand O'Neil.

If we'd have appointed someone like Houllier when we appointed O'Neil the money would have gone further and probably with more success as in modern football O'Neil management skills are extremely limited.

[johnc]

I would sooner stay in the Championship.

And who would that benefit? No-one
Not that any scenario involving us and O'Neill is at all likely. Lerner has been the defining influence of the first half of this decade. Not O'Neill

[sickbeggar]

I probably would too Brian.  Still think he'd do it though