Even Fleetwood know what Sherwood is like.

[ktvillan]

An excellent summary by Brian. It is possible though to have a foot in more than one camp .  Lerner is and has been the big problem but that does not excuse a manager being as bad as our last 3 before Garde.  I think Garde will do well for us in the long run and while i can see the reasoning behind allardyce and his ilk i fully agree with Brian's "what then." If it is all now reduced to purely staying in the PL then fine. The finances have driven things that way. But i like the idea that we will now try and do things a bit better than that.

[AVH87]

Quite a lot of people seem to be very sure Garde is the right man, and have confidence in him in the long-term. I'm not sure what this is based on, he's only ever managed at the opposite end of the league to what he's currently facing and in a different country over a brief period. It's not as if he is some battle-hardened campaigner, continued losses could really take their toll on him and if we go down with a whimper I doubt we'll be seeing him next season, via his choice or ours.

[Ormy Droid]

Quite a lot of people seem to be very sure Garde is the right man, and have confidence in him in the long-term. I'm not sure what this is based on, he's only ever managed at the opposite end of the league to what he's currently facing and in a different country over a brief period. It's not as if he is some battle-hardened campaigner, continued losses could really take their toll on him and if we go down with a whimper I doubt we'll be seeing him next season, via his choice or ours.

You could've said exactly the same about Pochettino when he arrived at Soton...We're just going to have to wait and see.

[old man villa fan]

I am not aware of any mistakes Remi Garde has made.

I think the fans are falling into three blocks. One group says it is all the owners fault. That group sub divides into those who think Randy Lerner has been responsible for bad decision making and those who think he is not spending enough money. A second major group says the way forward should have been Pulis, Allardyce or Moyes to battle for Premiership survival. The third major block says we don't want to be like Stoke or the Stripes or Sunderland and embrace anti-football we are a proud club and want better than that.

The first group, the owner blamers must look at the £265 million just paid for 13% of Man City and ask themselves how can any owner compete with that level of spending.

The Pulis would have saved us group must simply ask themselves one question. Then what?  An eternity of battlers running through brick walls to stay out of the bottom three?

My own view for what it is worth is that the club has been bady run since the days of MON profligacy.  I would put most of the mistakes down to Randy Lerner's naivety and impulsiveness and the lack of management structure and direction.

I do believe that structure is now in place and that the club is being run competently and in the choice of Remi Garde we are planning for the medium and long term.

The dreadful situation in which we find ourselves is a culmination of mistakes and monumental blunders over player purchases and contracts which has to be sorted out before we can make forward momentum.

The future starts here.

Superb post Brian (although possibly a tad over optimistic with the club now being run competently line - the jury is definitely out for me). I so hope you're right about the medium to long term plan.

Yeah, competence would have meant sacking Sherwood and appointing Garde in the summer, not saddling ourselves with the likes of Gestede and Lescott, and not giving Bacuna and Westwood new long term contracts.

Sacking Sherwood in the Summer would have been after 3 or 4 poor performances after having saved us from relegation. From the outside it would have been seen as very harsh. On reflection it would have been the right move but did we have to wait for it to get worse before making the move.

[AVH87]

Quite a lot of people seem to be very sure Garde is the right man, and have confidence in him in the long-term. I'm not sure what this is based on, he's only ever managed at the opposite end of the league to what he's currently facing and in a different country over a brief period. It's not as if he is some battle-hardened campaigner, continued losses could really take their toll on him and if we go down with a whimper I doubt we'll be seeing him next season, via his choice or ours.

You could've said exactly the same about Pochettino when he arrived at Soton...We're just going to have to wait and see.

Wait and see would be the right answer in my view, but a lot of people already seem convinced. I wanted Moyes but am hoping Garde can sort the defence out and build on the good attacking play against Watford.

[Clampy]

I am not aware of any mistakes Remi Garde has made.

Playing Gil and Grealish away at Everton is probably the one mistake he has made so far but other than that, you do get the impression long term he could be the right man.

[Dave]

Quite a lot of people seem to be very sure Garde is the right man, and have confidence in him in the long-term. I'm not sure what this is based on, he's only ever managed at the opposite end of the league to what he's currently facing and in a different country over a brief period. It's not as if he is some battle-hardened campaigner, continued losses could really take their toll on him and if we go down with a whimper I doubt we'll be seeing him next season, via his choice or ours.

You could've said exactly the same about Pochettino when he arrived at Soton...We're just going to have to wait and see.

Wait and see would be the right answer in my view, but a lot of people already seem convinced. I wanted Moyes but am hoping Garde can sort the defence out and build on the good attacking play against Watford.

I don't know about convinced. More that given the hand that he was dealt, it'll probably take something pretty apocalyptic for people to want this one out of the club.

If we become (somehow) worse than before and lose every game for the rest of the season then I'd be pretty unenthusiastic about him managing us in the Championship.

If though we start showing signs of improvement and it looks like things are starting to come together but he's been left too much to do to get us to 17th or above then I'd be happy* to see where he takes us from there.

I've not seen many people suggest that either he's a miracle worker who will definitely keep us up, or that he should definitely be the person to bring us back up, regardless of the performances for the rest of this season.


*well, obviously not happy as we'd have just been relegated. But you know what I mean.

[Chico Hamilton III]

I am not aware of any mistakes Remi Garde has made.

Playing Gil and Grealish away at Everton is probably the one mistake he has made so far but other than that, you do get the impression long term he could be the right man.

Based on what? I really want him to be a success as much as the next Villa fan but to say, after 2 losses and a draw in his first 3 games, that you get the impression he is the right man is nonsense. His CV gives us no real clues and he's unknown in Premier League terms. I hope he turns out to be a great manager  - and he could well be the next Pocettino for all we know - but nobody can predict whether or not he will be on the strength of a couple of games.

[Jon Crofts]

I'll give you a fact. Most supporters who actually go liked Tim and his freshness, most supporters who follow the club via forums didnt.

How is that a fact?

It needs to be in capitals to be a real fact.

[Chris Jameson]

I'll give you a fact. Most supporters who actually go liked Tim and his freshness, most supporters who follow the club via forums didnt.

How is that a fact?

It needs to be in capitals to be a real fact.

That's a fact. FACT.

[ktvillan]

I am not aware of any mistakes Remi Garde has made.

I think the fans are falling into three blocks. One group says it is all the owners fault. That group sub divides into those who think Randy Lerner has been responsible for bad decision making and those who think he is not spending enough money. A second major group says the way forward should have been Pulis, Allardyce or Moyes to battle for Premiership survival. The third major block says we don't want to be like Stoke or the Stripes or Sunderland and embrace anti-football we are a proud club and want better than that.

The first group, the owner blamers must look at the £265 million just paid for 13% of Man City and ask themselves how can any owner compete with that level of spending.

The Pulis would have saved us group must simply ask themselves one question. Then what?  An eternity of battlers running through brick walls to stay out of the bottom three?

My own view for what it is worth is that the club has been bady run since the days of MON profligacy.  I would put most of the mistakes down to Randy Lerner's naivety and impulsiveness and the lack of management structure and direction.

I do believe that structure is now in place and that the club is being run competently and in the choice of Remi Garde we are planning for the medium and long term.

The dreadful situation in which we find ourselves is a culmination of mistakes and monumental blunders over player purchases and contracts which has to be sorted out before we can make forward momentum.

The future starts here.

Superb post Brian (although possibly a tad over optimistic with the club now being run competently line - the jury is definitely out for me). I so hope you're right about the medium to long term plan.

Yeah, competence would have meant sacking Sherwood and appointing Garde in the summer, not saddling ourselves with the likes of Gestede and Lescott, and not giving Bacuna and Westwood new long term contracts.

Sacking Sherwood in the Summer would have been after 3 or 4 poor performances after having saved us from relegation. From the outside it would have been seen as very harsh. On reflection it would have been the right move but did we have to wait for it to get worse before making the move.

I think it was seen by some as harsh when Levy gave Sherwood the chop after a reasonable run. Levy was dead right though and had obviously seen through the veneer of half decent results and cocky banter and spotted the clueless chancer underneath.

[oldhill_avfc]

I am not aware of any mistakes Remi Garde has made.

I think the fans are falling into three blocks. One group says it is all the owners fault. That group sub divides into those who think Randy Lerner has been responsible for bad decision making and those who think he is not spending enough money. A second major group says the way forward should have been Pulis, Allardyce or Moyes to battle for Premiership survival. The third major block says we don't want to be like Stoke or the Stripes or Sunderland and embrace anti-football we are a proud club and want better than that.

The first group, the owner blamers must look at the £265 million just paid for 13% of Man City and ask themselves how can any owner compete with that level of spending.

The Pulis would have saved us group must simply ask themselves one question. Then what?  An eternity of battlers running through brick walls to stay out of the bottom three?

My own view for what it is worth is that the club has been bady run since the days of MON profligacy.  I would put most of the mistakes down to Randy Lerner's naivety and impulsiveness and the lack of management structure and direction.

I do believe that structure is now in place and that the club is being run competently and in the choice of Remi Garde we are planning for the medium and long term.

The dreadful situation in which we find ourselves is a culmination of mistakes and monumental blunders over player purchases and contracts which has to be sorted out before we can make forward momentum.

The future starts here.

As ever a very well reasoned post, however the problem with the 'future starting here' is that we still have the issue of ownership.  If Lerner stays, then the current structure will deliver very limited results which will fall below expectations as ultimately results will be limited by investment.  If Lerner goes then any new owners may have a completely different view of how to run things and we could be back to square one.

Using Brian's segmentation of supporters I feel many of us fell into a mix of all three groups. 

I think Lerner is a lousy businessman who's made a myriad of poor decisions, he spent unwisely in the past and is now being equally unwise in not investing to protect future income and the value of his asset.

As a season ticket holder, I don't want to watch anti-football.  Perhaps, that should be I'm sick of watching anti-football already!

Which brings me to third category; I'd argue that Allardyce or Moyes would have been right for our current situation.  Sort out the immediate problems, demand a certain level of control and investment, essentially make us fit for purpose and sale. 

And then what?  Well who knows - but at least we'd be in control of the situation.  We'd have had time to take measured decisions.

We could have tested the data driven scouting system on a selected number of players -if they worked out then it would have given everyone more confidence.  We could have put in place a degree of succesion planning.  We could have developed our marketing strategy .... etc etc

In short we'd have been in control of when the future started as opposed to now where all we realistically have is a future of unknowns and risk.

[Mister E]

I am not aware of any mistakes Remi Garde has made.

I think the fans are falling into three blocks. One group says it is all the owners fault. That group sub divides into those who think Randy Lerner has been responsible for bad decision making and those who think he is not spending enough money. A second major group says the way forward should have been Pulis, Allardyce or Moyes to battle for Premiership survival. The third major block says we don't want to be like Stoke or the Stripes or Sunderland and embrace anti-football we are a proud club and want better than that.

The first group, the owner blamers must look at the £265 million just paid for 13% of Man City and ask themselves how can any owner compete with that level of spending.

The Pulis would have saved us group must simply ask themselves one question. Then what?  An eternity of battlers running through brick walls to stay out of the bottom three?

My own view for what it is worth is that the club has been bady run since the days of MON profligacy.  I would put most of the mistakes down to Randy Lerner's naivety and impulsiveness and the lack of management structure and direction.

I do believe that structure is now in place and that the club is being run competently and in the choice of Remi Garde we are planning for the medium and long term.

The dreadful situation in which we find ourselves is a culmination of mistakes and monumental blunders over player purchases and contracts which has to be sorted out before we can make forward momentum.

The future starts here.

This was the very argument I put to a Boggies fan last night, which - to be fair - he took in good spirit.
However it's dressed up, the club has been a disaster over the last five years and Garde has it all to prove that he can either save us this season (looking like a tall order) or at least get us into the shape required to bounce back. I've no idea whether he's up to this herculean task.


Incidentally, on the issue of Pulis, he was sanguine about the quality of the football being served up but also pointed to three new players that are playing well and defining a slightly different Pulis approach - Evans, Rondon and McLean are all playing well, apparently, and Morrison, Fletcher and Blunt are playing better under this manager.
Pulis, Hughes and Allardyce are easily typecast when in reality there may well be more to it.

[footyskillz]

I'll give you a fact. Most supporters who actually go liked Tim and his freshness, most supporters who follow the club via forums didnt.

I'm sorry that's called opinion not fact.

[oswald funkletrumpet]

I'll give you a fact. Most supporters who actually go liked Tim and his freshness, most supporters who follow the club via forums didnt.

How is that a fact?

It needs to be in capitals to be a real fact.

That's a fact. FACT.

end of