Comparisons with 1986-87

[Chris Harte]

The smell at the club is worse than 86.

Agreed. It was bad enough back then but this feels worse. Far worse.

Back then we had a chairman in Doug Ellis, who despite calls to pack it in, actually cared and was there to be shot at. Now, we have a yank who couldn't give a monkey's toss (other than what$$$ in it for him) and who rarely ventures out of his bolt-hole five time zones away.

[dave.woodhall]

The smell at the club is worse than 86.

Agreed. It was bad enough back then but this feels worse. Far worse.

Back then we had a chairman in Doug Ellis, who despite calls to pack it in, actually cared and was there to be shot at. Now, we have a yank who couldn't give a monkey's toss (other than what$$$ in it for him) and who rarely ventures out of his bolt-hole five time zones away.

The irony of defending Ellis while saying Lerner is in it for the money isn't lost.

[CT]

If we get beaten by 5 at Southampton next week that'll be another similarity. 

I remember that well, we were 4 down in 20 minutes. That's certainly something this team are capable of next week.

[Chris Harte]

The smell at the club is worse than 86.

Agreed. It was bad enough back then but this feels worse. Far worse.

Back then we had a chairman in Doug Ellis, who despite calls to pack it in, actually cared and was there to be shot at. Now, we have a yank who couldn't give a monkey's toss (other than what$$$ in it for him) and who rarely ventures out of his bolt-hole five time zones away.

The irony of defending Ellis while saying Lerner is in it for the money isn't lost.

As well as presiding over relegation, history tells us he also subsequently employed the right person to pull the club up by its boot-straps.

This time around we don't have history to look back on. Will Lerner employ the right person? Maybe he already has. But we don't know, and I'm not feeling that confident about it.

[Clampy]

There's the argument that we were very fortunate that Sir Graham was willing to drop down a division to manage us. If anyone saved our arse last tie round, it was him.

[dave.woodhall]

Without going over old ground, he was being handsomely paid while destroying the team not through incompetence but out of sheer malice.

[Chris Harte]

There's the argument that we were very fortunate that Sir Graham was willing to drop down a division to manage us. If anyone saved our arse last tie round, it was him.

I agree, but it was Ellis who was responsible for bringing him to the club. Just as Lerner is responsible for who he employs now.

[Clampy]

There's the argument that we were very fortunate that Sir Graham was willing to drop down a division to manage us. If anyone saved our arse last tie round, it was him.

I agree, but it was Ellis who was responsible for bringing him to the club. Just as Lerner is responsible for who he employs now.

By the same token, he was also responsible for bringing in Graham Turner and Billy McNeil.

[Chris Harte]

There's the argument that we were very fortunate that Sir Graham was willing to drop down a division to manage us. If anyone saved our arse last tie round, it was him.

I agree, but it was Ellis who was responsible for bringing him to the club. Just as Lerner is responsible for who he employs now.

By the same token, he was also responsible for bringing in Graham Turner and Billy McNeil.

It'll take your Turner and McNeill and offer McCleish, Lambert and Sherwood.

Another comparison for you - I understand the club were debt-free in 1987.  How much debt does the club currently carry presently to Lerner?

[Billy Walker]

A major difference between the two situations is the appointment of Garde v McNeill.  What on earth Doug's logic was in appointing a relegation rival's manager is totally beyond me.  The Garde appointment gives me hope.  If we can keep in touch by the time the transfer window swings open we have a chance of turning things around.

Comparing the two squads, I recall some of the names from '87 and still shudder: I dont want to name names because a lot of them were good lads brought up from the youth ranks but I will highlight an over the hill Steve Hunt (a parallel there with Lescott come to think of it) as the kind of low rent signing we made back then. Surely the nucleus and overall quality of player is better today? 

[dave.woodhall]

It's pretty much a given (the great man said it himself) that Sir Graham appointed us, and thereby lies Doug's greatest asset. Right from the start, whenever we were in trouble there was a manager available to clear up the previous mistakes.

[pbavfckuwait]

There is no comparison to 86/87, the financial loss that will hit us this time will take many many years to get over if we actually ever do.

[Clampy]

There's the argument that we were very fortunate that Sir Graham was willing to drop down a division to manage us. If anyone saved our arse last tie round, it was him.

I agree, but it was Ellis who was responsible for bringing him to the club. Just as Lerner is responsible for who he employs now.

By the same token, he was also responsible for bringing in Graham Turner and Billy McNeil.

It'll take your Turner and McNeill and offer McCleish, Lambert and Sherwood.

That's kind of my point in a way, both did/have made iffy choices.  Mcleish was just a woeful and bloody stupid appointment. Lambert was a popular enough choice at the time but they left him in the job for far too long. Sherwood got us playing when we needed it.

I'll throw in Dr Jo and we'll call it a draw.

[pbavfckuwait]

Billy Walker I would love to have your optimism, I can see us being cut adrift well before the January window and again this is Randy's Aston Villa if we do buy anyone it will be on the 31st January, after another 3 or 4 games without a point.
I really hope you are right as I think this could be a major disaster that 86/87 will not compare to if we go down,

[Billy Walker]

Billy Walker I would love to have your optimism, I can see us being cut adrift well before the January window and again this is Randy's Aston Villa if we do buy anyone it will be on the 31st January, after another 3 or 4 games without a point.
I really hope you are right as I think this could be a major disaster that 86/87 will not compare to if we go down,

We can't throw in the towel when there's six months of a season left, it's as simple as that.