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Author Topic: The underlying problem...  (Read 25515 times)

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2015, 11:21:53 PM »
I am very disappointed that they did not follow through with getting an experienced director of football. .

We did. Well, a slightly different job title but very similar, anyway. Hendrik Almstadt.

Online levico

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2015, 11:24:27 PM »
This part of the year was always going to be open season for negativity. Enjoy it while it lasts you miserablists.

Genuine question - why shouldn't we all be miserable?

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2015, 12:28:27 AM »
The underlying problem is pretty clear, really.

You can see it in this quote from Sherwood today:

Quote
"Our performances have merited better than one win in seven games but I said from the start it would be an uphill struggle. We need to stay in the division and if we do we will be stronger next year.

The immediately obvious point is that that contrasts immensely with what the very same Tim Sherwood said at the end of last season, ie this:

Quote
"We gave the fans nothing to cheer about today but I promise them it will get better," Sherwood told BBC Sport.
"We've stayed in the division but we have a losing mentality. We don't want to be scraping relegation next season."

Followed by this at the start of the summer:

Quote
'I am allowed to sign whoever I want in the summer as long as I can justify it, but I believe even if we didn't make a signing we wouldn't be in this position again,'

So, there's a clear change of tack from Sherwood there, but that isn't the problem.

The problem is that the Aston Villa manager - yet again - is saying this:

Quote
We need to stay in the division and if we do we will be stronger next year

That's the problem.

We had a kit marketing campaign a few weeks ago telling us that we're a massive club, we have had - till recently - Sherwood talking about what a big club we are all the time, we have Fox with his routine doing the same, yet here we are, hearing the same shit as we've heard the last four or five years - we have to stay up, that's what it is about.

We're a big club, apparently, about the same size as Everton, but I don't remember hearing the Everton manager - any of them in recent years - suggesting their acceptable benchmark is staying up. I also don't remember hearing the managers of significantly less illustrious clubs like Stoke or West Ham saying that, either.

So how come that, for five years, has become the measure of acceptability for Aston Villa managers? Why are we still prepared to listen to this nonsense? None of us expect to be pushing for Europe at any point soon, but, really, staying up? Is that *still* the measure of what we aim for? Really?  If that's the case, then I imagine the people coming up with that entire "this is a big, big club" bullshit to sell shirts in the summer will have struggled to keep straight faces while pitching it.

Sherwood is a chancer, utterly out of his depth, but he is just part of the problem. The bigger problem is that we are a club run by people who really only care about not getting relegated and missing out on the cash. The nearest comparison to us is Newcastle United.

Seriously, if the club with the closest operating ethos to yours is Newcastle, then you really are in a bad, bad place.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2015, 12:34:01 AM »
He's become Lambert. Whether that is entirely him or a combination of the mysterious stuff behind the scenes is open to debate. Every game now the "game plan" is to contain in the open period, whereas last season he came and attacked and got into teams and gave it a go. That's exactly what happened to Lambert. He started to look at the end of season one as though he was developing a really attacking enjoyable style and within a few months he became a haggard old recluse, starved of sleep and all of the things he once believed in. A shell of a man preaching survival and desperation.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2015, 12:35:56 AM »
I think that's fair comment, TV, but with Sherwood there is the added complicating factor that he talks himself up to be some sort of management god, which is totally at odds with what we see on the pitch.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2015, 12:38:57 AM »
I think that's fair comment, TV, but with Sherwood there is the added complicating factor that he talks himself up to be some sort of management god, which is totally at odds with what we see on the pitch.

I think that's just delusions of grandeur on Sherwood's part. Lambert didn't have really have any which just goes to prove you can get to the same spot from different places. Lambert's delusion was that every game (defeat) the players were excellent, and Sherwood's is that it's the players fault and never his because could it be? FFS.

Offline peter w

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2015, 12:40:05 AM »
when hearing what Sherwood said i was also taken aback. Not just because of the bigger picture issue paulie mentions but the negativity. Almost as if it was perfectly Lambert-esque in 'all I can do with these young kids is try and stay up'. Eh? since when? Since when did the club decide that? i think that Sherwood, lerner, or Fox will see the crowd turn really quickly if we're going to have another season of that shite.

Well I'd give him 6 weeks to try and do something about it.

On the other hand maybe it was a nod to his senior players in the team who are not stepping up. Giving them a public rebuke. That would be brilliant tacticly and superbly Freudian. However, I don't think that has happened. I think his starting to use excuses and that is what is worrying for me. Very worrying. If I were the Labour Party I'd watching. The present and the future of Sherwood and Corbyn are running in some just off-perfect parallels.

Offline Louzie0

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2015, 12:43:18 AM »
It (becoming Lambert) seems to have happened a lot sooner this time, or are we just getting more impatient?

I don't think we are wrong. Tim needs to show us that his vision will work. There have been injuries to key players. He will have his choice and his plan back, against Stoke next week.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2015, 12:47:39 AM »
when hearing what Sherwood said i was also taken aback. Not just because of the bigger picture issue paulie mentions but the negativity. Almost as if it was perfectly Lambert-esque in 'all I can do with these young kids is try and stay up'. Eh? since when? Since when did the club decide that? i think that Sherwood, lerner, or Fox will see the crowd turn really quickly if we're going to have another season of that shite.

That's absolutely it. The glib assumption that there's always that old chestnut to fall back on if things get bad.

The bizarre situation now is that we actually have a pretty strong squad - it isn't a top six one, but it certainly isn't a bottom six one, either. It's also not as if we are failing to score goals, we're doing ok on that front.

The problem we have is that the manager is producing significantly less than the sum of the parts of the squad.

Offline peter w

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2015, 12:48:48 AM »
That's my point Lou. The fans won't have any patience because we've now had enough of the same dull turgid performances and inevitable defeats. paul bloody Lambert used up all the patience any new manager will get for the next 50 years or so. Sherwood needs to act and act fast otherwise I think he'll find himself gone. he must know that and he must know, or be actually feeling, the pressure and he's not responding too well just now. Stoke is massive.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2015, 12:51:56 AM »
when hearing what Sherwood said i was also taken aback. Not just because of the bigger picture issue paulie mentions but the negativity. Almost as if it was perfectly Lambert-esque in 'all I can do with these young kids is try and stay up'. Eh? since when? Since when did the club decide that? i think that Sherwood, lerner, or Fox will see the crowd turn really quickly if we're going to have another season of that shite.

That's absolutely it. The glib assumption that there's always that old chestnut to fall back on if things get bad.

The bizarre situation now is that we actually have a pretty strong squad - it isn't a top six one, but it certainly isn't a bottom six one, either. It's also not as if we are failing to score goals, we're doing ok on that front.

The problem we have is that the manager is producing significantly less than the sum of the parts of the squad.

And the absolute luxury this board enjoys is that because of the years of continuous garbage we as fans will accept mediocrity and mid table as a successful campaign. This is Aston Villa we're on about, yet we've been worn down to that.

Offline peter w

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2015, 12:58:05 AM »
Sometimes managers stumble on the right formula accidentally. They don't necessarily have to know their best teams but the lucky managers are those where injuries, suspensions, or poor form results in a team that clicks. I do think the right-players are there and they are good enough. But I'm starting to wonder exactly what the plan was/is with all these players that would be a risk. We've gone full circle and back to a young team that Lambert had crying out for experience in the middle, to a more expensive team of kids crying out for experience in the middle? Was that the plan? Because if so that's Lerner or Fox saying, 'listen Tim you've got the same budget as Paul had and the benteke money. You'll get nothing else so you may as well buy for the future. So this season just stay up'. I'm starting to think we're going for the Lambert plan again but with youngsters from overseas rather than League one.

Offline Louzie0

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2015, 12:58:30 AM »
It is for him, peterw, because I agree with you, there's not a lot of patience, if any, left for a manager who doesn't play his best team or make the most of what he's choosing from, on match day.

The injuries are over and he has to show us what he's got.

I know some of them are very new to the Premier League. They've been training for months, they are professional footballers, they are in our club and now is the time that they show us what they've got. And, validate the manager and his choices.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2015, 01:01:23 AM »
Sometimes managers stumble on the right formula accidentally. They don't necessarily have to know their best teams but the lucky managers are those where injuries, suspensions, or poor form results in a team that clicks. I do think the right-players are there and they are good enough. But I'm starting to wonder exactly what the plan was/is with all these players that would be a risk. We've gone full circle and back to a young team that Lambert had crying out for experience in the middle, to a more expensive team of kids crying out for experience in the middle? Was that the plan? Because if so that's Lerner or Fox saying, 'listen Tim you've got the same budget as Paul had and the benteke money. You'll get nothing else so you may as well buy for the future. So this season just stay up'. I'm starting to think we're going for the Lambert plan again but with youngsters from overseas rather than League one.

yet ironically Peter, the mistakes for the most part have come from the experienced players like Lescott, Richards, Sanchez and Guzan. The young players for sure need time to adapt but the older ones have let us down massively.

Offline Louzie0

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Re: The underlying problem...
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2015, 01:07:54 AM »
Toronto, Our Jack was taken off today. Everybody can have a less than perfect game.

But Tim hasn't been able to pick an ideal team because of injuries. Next week, training granted, he will. It would be very helpful if they all did what we know they are capable of!

 


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