Yes but should the tries have been disallowed?
England has three key area of failure yesterday. We were rubbish at the breakdown, Scotland kept turning us over. Our tackling was poor, Scotland kept breaking tackles. We didn't appear to have any real attacking shape and aligned to that the bench didn't bring much improvement when players were replaced.
Scotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.
Quote from: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2018, 09:07:23 AMEngland has three key area of failure yesterday. We were rubbish at the breakdown, Scotland kept turning us over. Our tackling was poor, Scotland kept breaking tackles. We didn't appear to have any real attacking shape and aligned to that the bench didn't bring much improvement when players were replaced. not pointing fingers but it's interesting that this was a huge problem under Lancaster and has happened again almost as soon as Robshaw is back at 7. I have a lot of time for Robshaw but if you don't play him at 6 you don't play him at all. Square pegs to get as many of his favourites in the pitch at once isn't something I expected on Jones but I right now his inability to pick 2 from 3 in the 2nd row is costing us at the breakdown.The lack of impact from the bench is no shock to me, I feared that might be the case, if you go with his term of finishers I'd say George adds dynamism at the cost of some control (which is fine), Nowell is busy and offers a different type of threat from the wing and T'eo can have some impact as a wrecking ball but the rest of the bench feels like substitutes and it shows. It's chalk and cheese to the bench we had a year or so back when we were bringing on people like Hughes, Mako, Sinckler and making tired players face aggressive dynamic runners from all angles. It's was no coincidence just how strongly we ended games and this squad just doesn't have the gas for it. I've still not seen the full game but I did watch the last 20 because I thought that was where the real England would've won this game and it was as predictable and easy to defend as I expected. He needs to do something and if nothing else a 9 with pace and vision (rather than so/so passer with a good kicking game) could come in and generate some buzz.
Quote from: nigel on February 25, 2018, 12:04:45 AMScotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.I think Nigel Owens got both decisions right, but the way he dealt with the Launchbury one was questionable. Launchbury's knee touched the floor when he was competing for the ball at a ruck, which meant he was no longer supporting his weight and that is a penalty (albeit quite a harsh one considering what goes on at most rucks). Owens should have called the penalty there and then and given the Scots the penalty advantage, but he did neither and only called it back for a penalty after the pass had been intercepted. It was the right decision, but he had not made it clear that it was a penalty and an advantage was being played, so it was questionable. The knock on was clear, if again, unfortunate.
Quote from: tomd2103 on February 26, 2018, 02:26:13 PMQuote from: nigel on February 25, 2018, 12:04:45 AMScotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.I think Nigel Owens got both decisions right, but the way he dealt with the Launchbury one was questionable. Launchbury's knee touched the floor when he was competing for the ball at a ruck, which meant he was no longer supporting his weight and that is a penalty (albeit quite a harsh one considering what goes on at most rucks). Owens should have called the penalty there and then and given the Scots the penalty advantage, but he did neither and only called it back for a penalty after the pass had been intercepted. It was the right decision, but he had not made it clear that it was a penalty and an advantage was being played, so it was questionable. The knock on was clear, if again, unfortunate. The bold bit is important because, for me, Barclay supported his own weight in about a third of breakdowns he contested and got away with it repeatedly.I've finished watching it now btw, I agree Owens can say he got both decisions right but I don't think he can legitimately claim to have followed the laws consistently at the breakdown.
The current ruck laws make the game safer and allow the ball to be recycled quicker and more often.However, it’s bloody complicated and completely opposite at times to my days getting kicked about on the wrong side of a ruck.
Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2018, 03:24:59 PMQuote from: tomd2103 on February 26, 2018, 02:26:13 PMQuote from: nigel on February 25, 2018, 12:04:45 AMScotland deserved win after first half, but, I fell that Nige got a major decision wrong. Danny Care should have been allowed to touch down then he should have gone to the TMO. I don't think Launchbury should have been penalised. That would have put England level and I'm pretty sure we'd have gone on to win.In my defence I was a winger/full back so maybe a forward could clarify that one.I think Nigel Owens got both decisions right, but the way he dealt with the Launchbury one was questionable. Launchbury's knee touched the floor when he was competing for the ball at a ruck, which meant he was no longer supporting his weight and that is a penalty (albeit quite a harsh one considering what goes on at most rucks). Owens should have called the penalty there and then and given the Scots the penalty advantage, but he did neither and only called it back for a penalty after the pass had been intercepted. It was the right decision, but he had not made it clear that it was a penalty and an advantage was being played, so it was questionable. The knock on was clear, if again, unfortunate. The bold bit is important because, for me, Barclay supported his own weight in about a third of breakdowns he contested and got away with it repeatedly.I've finished watching it now btw, I agree Owens can say he got both decisions right but I don't think he can legitimately claim to have followed the laws consistently at the breakdown.Thanks for clearing that up, guys.Just watched it again, though. Launchburys knee touched the ground before he challenged, but, was off when he went for ball (I thought that was OK), Owens told him to release, which he did, pass intersepted for 'Try' Surely that's wrong?
Because his knee touched he's effectively made himself out of play and has to exit the ruck before he can go back in to compete (much like the tackled player releasing the ball or the tackler letting go of the player and standing up before they can compete. The issue I have with it is that Owens calls 'lost now' and Launchbury stops competing so they get the pass away, it's not launchbury's fault the pass is shit and you never see a mistake covered for like that normally, His defence that the damage was done is just about on the side of the law but 99 times out of a hundred if the ref says it's lost and the defender backs away it's not going back as a pen if the ball gets lost, the inconsistency is the problem.If you going to go back for stuff that is marginal like that then you have to do it regularly. For example (i'll link the video I'm going from so the times make sense):If you go to the 2nd scottish try (about 3 minutes). I believe the clearout on Farrell is around the neck, if they go back and look at that it's probably a penalty and that gets disallowed but because no one bothered to check they get the points.On top of that is the Ryan Wilson citing for scratching at Hughes eyes. - https://twitter.com/bbcrugbyunion/status/967685739071721473Owens has built his reputation of 'grow up and get on with it' which i normally agree with but when it's around the eyes you really have to check because if his little finger makes contact with the eye then he has to do more than a slap on the wrist.