Fitness

[brian green]

Don't agree I am afraid. When fatigue kicks in technique falters and mistake inevitably happen.

[Gregorys Boy]

Don't agree I am afraid. When fatigue kicks in technique falters and mistake inevitably happen.

But look at it the other way.  We don't have a very experienced side and the team bar a few are compleley different from last season.  I think it take s time for players to gel, and for young players or players who have not played in England to adapt.  To me we seem to be making a lot of the same mistakes as last season, and very little of that is down to fitness IMO.

[brian green]

As a small footnote on how fit top level footballers are, we were at Stansted Airport once getting off the shuttle bus. Jamie Carragher was on the bus and helped some old ladies with their large suitcases. I cheekily patted him on the back for being so kind. It was like patting a bronze statue.

[olaftab]

I think Brian that the gym work is about pumping ego - I think many footballers want the body perfect as part of the overall package which includes the millionaire lifestyle. When you consider the likes of Des Bremner and Frank Carrodus although hardly Charles Atlas could probably out run most of today's Premier League players. When you also consider that footballers today play, week in, week out ,on pitches that resemble bowling greens and that major apoplexy is caused if they have to play more than once a week it leads to the conclusion that players pre Premier League were a lot fitter.

When I read Brian's post about stamina and Sanchez I thought exactly of Frank and Des with their skeleton upper torso! Players these days are obsessed with Puerto Banus culture!

[oswald funkletrumpet]

I think Brian that the gym work is about pumping ego - I think many footballers want the body perfect as part of the overall package which includes the millionaire lifestyle. When you consider the likes of Des Bremner and Frank Carrodus although hardly Charles Atlas could probably out run most of today's Premier League players. When you also consider that footballers today play, week in, week out ,on pitches that resemble bowling greens and that major apoplexy is caused if they have to play more than once a week it leads to the conclusion that players pre Premier League were a lot fitter.

Definately Carrodus, I think he did 21 miles of the Birmingham Marathon in a pair of dunlop green flash and had to be told to stop by one of the club staff

[Vegas]

I think anyone who thinks players of the past were fitter is looking through rose tinted spectacles. Diets, training regimes, professionalism of facilities etc have all improved substantially, and in every measurable sport performances are factually better than they were 30 years ago.

If anything I think the problem with the premier league is it prioritises fitness and stamina ahead of technique too much (arguably in the 70s and 80s it was physical hardness at the expense of technique but that's another debate)

[Brend'Watkins]

I agree.  30 years ago we had footballers.  Today we have footballers who are athletes with some of those being far more athletic than others.

[brian green]

As these pages will testify I know little about football. I do know a little bit about horse racing and there was a similar lengthy debate in that sport about whether contemporary horses are fitter and faster than ones in the past. The perceived wisdom that breeding and diet and improved training techniques were bound to make today's horses stronger and quicker was blown away by a massive Jockey Club analysis of race times over the last half century. The figures show that longer races involving stamina have got slower and shorter races based on flat out speed have got quicker.

[Ads]

I don’t think bulk has anything to do with your ability to have high levels of stamina.  Dagg and Habana are north of 15 stone, yet both are rapid and can run and run and run and run.

Lomu weighed in excess of 18 stone and could do 100 metres in 10 seconds.

Physical tiredness will effect decision making and reactions, but its inexplicable to link that to the calamitous goals we’ve conceded thus far.

[brian green]

Two weeks ago I would have disagreed with you Ads but after watching the Vuelta (Tour of Spain) in which the previously almost unknown bike rider Tom Dumoulin held onto the leader's Jersey to the last day of the tour against climbers half his size and bulk was an eye opener.  Heart and lung size are a significant factor in equine sprinters. Unlike Carrodus or Lomu we can cut them up and take a look.

[pbavfckuwait]

Fitness is not just a physical thing, it is also a mental factor and I honestly think that at times the "Oh we've fucked it again" mindset of a lot of the Villa players and there were quite a few yesterday who played last season, puts an extra 10 pounds onto the weight of their legs and towards the end of a game, time after time it shows in their decision making.

[dave.woodhall]

Players are much bigger, fitter and stronger now than in the past. If you disagree, point me in the direction of a Paul Gascoigne-type physique in the modern game.

[brian green]

Spot on Kuwait. A horse gets the same existence if it first or second in the Gold Cup at Ascot. It sees out the race without comprehension of what is at stake. A man will drive himself beyond fatigue like we did at Wembley against Liverpool or the opposite as we did against Arsenal at Wembley.

[pbavfckuwait]

There is one Dave, he played for Boro last year and now I believe he has gone to0 one of the promoted teams, cant for the life of me remember his name, is it Lee something, he makes Gascoigne look like twiggy

[LeeB]

There is one Dave, he played for Boro last year and now I believe he has gone to0 one of the promoted teams, cant for the life of me remember his name, is it Lee something, he makes Gascoigne look like twiggy

Lee Tomlin. He can play, though I suppose you'd better if you turn up looking like that.