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Author Topic: Men in black in the dock.  (Read 7127 times)

Offline brian green

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Men in black in the dock.
« on: March 22, 2015, 12:02:25 PM »
Compared with the furore that has broken around the heads of the referees at Man City and Huddersfield the atrocious refereeing performance at VP yesterday has gone completely unnoticed.   It raises not only the most obvious point about how the likes of Swarbrick (remember him?) get to be top flight referees in the first place and what can be done to lessen the impact on teams of refereeing blunders,  it raises at least two other questions, firstly what useful purpose is being served by the whole crew of officials who are now part of the game?  Secondly as it applies to our treatment yesterday a referee can cock up persistently in small ways and get away with it because the small mistakes were only the death by a thousand cuts to the team on the receiving end of it, not a calamitous one off cock up like the Tesco bags suffered.
Whatever the resistance by the FA to change to their status quo, technology like the 30 second recall in the NFL has to be introduced, in my opinion.

Offline supertom

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2015, 12:10:11 PM »
I know people have a moan about refs and always have done but genuinely the quality of reffing in the last few years has turned to complete shite in the Premiership. It comes to something when a league misses refs like Graham Poll who gave out 3 yellow cards to one player in a game once.

Take the West Brom cup game for example. The ref and his assistants were having a very good game. But two contentious decisions (I actually agreed with the W.B sending off to be honest) and it undoes it all. Certainly the decision on Grealish was ludicrous. Both yellows were IMO. The first yellow for example was Jack's first challenge, a little cynical but it was his first since coming on. Should have been a quiet word from the ref to say "next one is a yellow." After all Yacob had made 2-3 rough challenges before his first yellow.

And yesterday was ludicrous. They got the rub of the decisions. They almost also scored from an offside position too.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2015, 12:12:23 PM »
The ref wasn't just poor yesterday. If he'd been poor Swansea would've suffered some bad decisions too. Instead it genuinely seemed like he had money on Swansea. I was only surprised he didn't award them a pen or send one of ours off at some point.

Absolute shambles.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 12:14:36 PM »
He did seem staggeringly incompetent yesterday.

Offline supertom

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2015, 12:17:40 PM »
The ref wasn't just poor yesterday. If he'd been poor Swansea would've suffered some bad decisions too. Instead it genuinely seemed like he had money on Swansea. I was only surprised he didn't award them a pen or send one of ours off at some point.

Absolute shambles.
Granted their winner didn't come off one of those decisions (thankfully) but it's just piss poor. Reffing like this can cost teams points and ultimately their place in this league. Conceivably bad reffing decisions could end a club. The financial hit is too much to take for some clubs. Look at Portsmouth. They're just about still clutching to existence.

We've implemented goal line tech now. We need to do more and there needs to be a consistency between refs. More clarity and a better understanding of the rules of the game. In too many aspects there appear to be shades of gray.

They do say these things even themselves out. But we've suffered at the hands of a shit ref more than we've benefited this season.

Offline Clampy

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2015, 12:19:20 PM »
The ref was piss poor yesterday. Some of the fouls he gave were just nonsense.

Offline brian green

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2015, 01:16:36 PM »
My own, highly subjective opinion is that much of the unfairness comes from referees because they consider, or are more correctly encouraged by the FA to consider that they have virtually unlimited discretion.   I moaned not long ago about the ref who put his whistle to his lips to blow for full time but when Brad Guzan bundled a clean catch and our goal was severely threatened he allowed play to continue until we had eliminated the danger.   Once discretion comes into it, the mind set of each individual referee will dictate the implementation of the rules of the game.   Yesterday in the thick of that referee pulling us up for the most marginal of transgressions he was allowing Swansea players to walk yards and yards down the touchline for throws and one "throw" near the end of the game was straight out of the basketball passing manual.  Somebody somewhere has told officials that stealing yards and correct throw technique is no longer important.   These things do not happen by accident, they creep in through the open back door of discretion.   The ref yesterday made an oscar winning performance with his spray cannister but time and time again Swansea took free kicks from miles away from the supposed offences.   The ugly bastard children of referees discretion are the vices of diving, "taking one for the team" and game management (aka time wasting).

Offline joe_c

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2015, 01:52:44 PM »
We were discussing his awfulness in the pub afterwards and how curious it was to be so critical of a referee's performance when there had been no controversial decisions or cards issued. I found myself glancing in his direction any time there was any physical contact on the pitch such was his officiousness. I looked him up on the Internet and was surprised to learn he's 29 so can't help but think he should be honing his craft in a lower division.

Offline Witton Warrior

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2015, 02:01:00 PM »
We saw (and suffered from) the discretion point when a certain Vidic stayed on the pitch after being last man and giving away a penalty. I remember hearing some ref saying they always considered the match and how their decisions may affect it - this gives them far too much subjective power over the narrative of a match.

I am always careful about saying a ref is biased as I think they are usually just crap. The guy yesterday seemed hell-bent on giving Swansea fouls at any opportunity - but for the life of me I cannot understand why he would do that? What goes through his mind?

Offline CAitken

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2015, 03:12:37 PM »
The ref wasn't just poor yesterday. If he'd been poor Swansea would've suffered some bad decisions too. Instead it genuinely seemed like he had money on Swansea. I was only surprised he didn't award them a pen or send one of ours off at some point.

Absolute shambles.
Granted their winner didn't come off one of those decisions (thankfully) but it's just piss poor. Reffing like this can cost teams points and ultimately their place in this league. Conceivably bad reffing decisions could end a club. The financial hit is too much to take for some clubs. Look at Portsmouth. They're just about still clutching to existence.

We've implemented goal line tech now. We need to do more and there needs to be a consistency between refs. More clarity and a better understanding of the rules of the game. In too many aspects there appear to be shades of gray.

They do say these things even themselves out. But we've suffered at the hands of a shit ref more than we've benefited this season.
The goal came from the ref's inconsistency. Earlier in the 2nd half blew for a Villa Foul when Delph was breaking forward from midfield but when the Swansea player was fouled on the halfway line he went to blow but waved play on and the winger ran free and crossed for the goal.

Offline supertom

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2015, 03:18:04 PM »
The ref wasn't just poor yesterday. If he'd been poor Swansea would've suffered some bad decisions too. Instead it genuinely seemed like he had money on Swansea. I was only surprised he didn't award them a pen or send one of ours off at some point.

Absolute shambles.
Granted their winner didn't come off one of those decisions (thankfully) but it's just piss poor. Reffing like this can cost teams points and ultimately their place in this league. Conceivably bad reffing decisions could end a club. The financial hit is too much to take for some clubs. Look at Portsmouth. They're just about still clutching to existence.

We've implemented goal line tech now. We need to do more and there needs to be a consistency between refs. More clarity and a better understanding of the rules of the game. In too many aspects there appear to be shades of gray.

They do say these things even themselves out. But we've suffered at the hands of a shit ref more than we've benefited this season.
The goal came from the ref's inconsistency. Earlier in the 2nd half blew for a Villa Foul when Delph was breaking forward from midfield but when the Swansea player was fouled on the halfway line he went to blow but waved play on and the winger ran free and crossed for the goal.
Ah, I'd not noticed that.

Offline Tokyo Sexwhale

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2015, 03:36:27 PM »
The ref wasn't just poor yesterday. If he'd been poor Swansea would've suffered some bad decisions too. Instead it genuinely seemed like he had money on Swansea. I was only surprised he didn't award them a pen or send one of ours off at some point.

Absolute shambles.

Before the game, someone on here mentioned that this ref had previous history with Swansea; and I speculated that he might redress that in our game.

Offline frank black

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2015, 03:43:03 PM »
Interesting fact about ref/linesmen...did you know the ref is assessed on decisions made or missed. But the linesmen and those behind the goal line are only assessed on decisions made (apart from offside of course). Hence why the linesmen or assistants rarely get involved in fouls unless asked by the ref, if they don't make any decisions on fouls then they can't be negatively assessed.

Offline brian green

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  • Location: Nice France
  • GM : 19.06.2020
Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2015, 03:46:54 PM »
In between posting on here I am watching Juventus play Genoa.   There was a clear example of referee discretion bending the rules just a moment ago.   Juve got a penalty.   Several of the Genoa players had encroached into the box before the kick.   The keeper guessed correctly and palmed Tevez's shot out straight back at him but because the Genoa defender was already in the box by four or five yards he kicked the rebound off Tevez's toe and cleared the ball. There really should be a move towards zero tolerance of rule breaking but there will not be because the concept of discretion underpins the FA's ethos that referees must be protected from censure at all times because the undermining of the refs undermines the FA.   If ever there was an organization which needs overhaul it is the FA and their corrupt spawn FIFA and UEFA.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Men in black in the dock.
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2015, 03:47:37 PM »
My own, highly subjective opinion is that much of the unfairness comes from referees because they consider, or are more correctly encouraged by the FA to consider that they have virtually unlimited discretion.   I moaned not long ago about the ref who put his whistle to his lips to blow for full time but when Brad Guzan bundled a clean catch and our goal was severely threatened he allowed play to continue until we had eliminated the danger.   Once discretion comes into it, the mind set of each individual referee will dictate the implementation of the rules of the game.   Yesterday in the thick of that referee pulling us up for the most marginal of transgressions he was allowing Swansea players to walk yards and yards down the touchline for throws and one "throw" near the end of the game was straight out of the basketball passing manual.  Somebody somewhere has told officials that stealing yards and correct throw technique is no longer important.   These things do not happen by accident, they creep in through the open back door of discretion.   The ref yesterday made an oscar winning performance with his spray cannister but time and time again Swansea took free kicks from miles away from the supposed offences.   The ugly bastard children of referees discretion are the vices of diving, "taking one for the team" and game management (aka time wasting).

The space allowed for referee's discretion is the space that the larger teams can use to attempt to influence the referee's decision.

Halsey was on the radio a few weeks back, he was rattling on about how you have to manage players differently and was advocating pre-judging decisions based on his knowledge of players. He said "for example, I know that Cesc Fabregas doesn't dive" which almost had me foaming at the mouth, and to his credit Stewart Robson who was on the show took him to task about it. I heard Poll say similar in the past, and you see it all the time in their display, buddying up with the stars and shitting all over teams and players that don't matter as much.

The standard in this league is piss poor and the system is corrupt. Oh for the likes of David Ellary, who clearly didn't give a shit who he upset, maybe because his livelihood didn't depend on it.

 


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