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Author Topic: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...  (Read 49599 times)

Online Monty

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2014, 01:28:06 PM »
I must say I always had my doubts about Bent, as I felt that he's the kind of player whose personal goal tally goes up as the rest of the team's goes down, but considering we were scoring roughly zero goals a game in that season there's no question that Bent was crucial in keeping us in the league, which is worth a lot more than £18m.


Online Monty

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2014, 01:28:47 PM »
And there we have it.

Asks for a cogent argument then resorts to name calling and sarcasm.

Look in your parallel universe on here you clearly have a party line.Its just regretable that the media treat some as the voice of Villa supporters.

Sound more like the voice of Randys PR machine to me.

Oh God yeah, we're so pro-Randy on here. In fact I think the website will be renamed 'Shunnamites and Co.'

Offline silhillvilla

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2014, 01:37:51 PM »
In the entire history of the club, MON has done more damage to us than any other single individual , closely followed by Randolph Lerner.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2014, 01:41:19 PM »
In the entire history of the club, MON has done more damage to us than any other single individual , closely followed by Randolph Lerner.

Yeah, right.

Offline Richard E

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2014, 01:44:55 PM »
I must have imagined Herbert Douglas Ellis.

Online Ian.

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2014, 01:49:22 PM »
For a long time during MON's time here it was exciting again and a breath of fresh air after DOL. I was enjoying the football in General and we had some exciting games and players. Ash, Carew Gabby and Milner were a joy at times. Petrov and Lauren were a joy to have in the team. However come the final few months and the way he departed and the mess of the wage bill left us in a right state.
My biggest gripe is the experienced players Dunne, Collins and Warnock especially wh let us down when MON walked and didn't stand up and fight for us as club, instead they caused all sorts of trouble because they didn't like GH.

Offline aj2k77

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2014, 01:50:28 PM »
In the entire history of the club, MON has done more damage to us than any other single individual , closely followed by Randolph Lerner.

We've gone from 15th to 15th under Lerner, I'm no fan of his, he's blown it at Villa and his disengagement from the club has been pathetic but compare to Ellis... he managed to take the European champions down in half a decade. We built on nothing. After World Cup 90 and then Euro 96 when sky got involved and football went through the roof we we're one of the 3/4 biggest teams in the country, no argument. By the time he left we'd been left behind and haven't caught up or are likely to. His corner shop mentality at a time when the game was changing has probably been the biggest chance missed in our history.

Offline Damo70

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2014, 01:51:29 PM »
I must have imagined Herbert Douglas Ellis.

I must have imagined Graham Turner.

Online Clampy

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2014, 01:52:23 PM »
In the entire history of the club, MON has done more damage to us than any other single individual , closely followed by Randolph Lerner.

In the entire history of H&V, i'm not sure that i've read anything so ridiculous.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2014, 01:54:06 PM »
In the entire history of the club, MON has done more damage to us than any other single individual , closely followed by Randolph Lerner.

We've gone from 15th to 15th under Lerner, I'm no fan of his, he's blown it at Villa and his disengagement from the club has been pathetic but compare to Ellis... he managed to take the European champions down in half a decade. We built on nothing. After World Cup 90 and then Euro 96 when sky got involved and football went through the roof we we're one of the 3/4 biggest teams in the country, no argument. By the time he left we'd been left behind and haven't caught up or are likely to. His corner shop mentality at a time when the game was changing has probably been the biggest chance missed in our history.

25 years of H&V summed up in a paragraph.

Offline passport1

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2014, 01:54:22 PM »
I hope MON leads Ireland to the Euros.

He's a thouroghly decent individual , who as I have said previously is held in high regard in the game, by fellow managers, ex pros and former players.

I disaprove of the vitriol displayed by many on here towards him.

He was good for our club while he was here.We were compedative, teams feared playing us and were at the right end of the table.

Infact all the things that are currently sadly lacking.

The ground was generally full , we were on tv regularly and we had record season ticket sales. .I'm guessing that generated a fair bit of revenue.

I quite liked that.


Online Monty

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2014, 02:01:18 PM »
'Thoroughly decent'? And, again, 'held in high regard' - by whom? By Robbie Savage and Steve Claridge?

He is remarkable in one way. There aren't many managers who are so good at one thing and so bad at another. MON is, or at least was, quite amazing at motivating players, creating a club mentality or even a siege mentality, and inspiring loyalty in players and individual performances of a level higher than they often should be. However, he was a good candidate, even while with us, for the title of League's Least Progressive Tactician, along with training methods, player diets, squad use etc. He would have been a brilliant manager in the 1970s, but he was an inadequate one in the 2000s.

Offline peter w

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2014, 02:01:34 PM »
I guess some on here hated top six finishes, getting to Wembley, playing in Europe and being a club that actually mattered.

That must account for the MON vitriol.

That's a bit like your wife or husband maxing out the credit card, remortgaging the house and spending the kids' birthday money on foreign holidays.  Still, at least Magaluf was nice.
I guess some on here hated top six finishes, getting to Wembley, playing in Europe and being a club that actually mattered.

That must account for the MON vitriol.

Yes - that'll be the reason - not the overpriced signings we are still lumbered with and shite home form.
Oh and the way he left - that's the one - you recall the way he left?

I wonder do you actually believe that tripe or whether you have to keep repeating it to justify what has happened in the interim.

And no I don't rate Lerner.

You do realise that since 92 our average finishing position was 6th before O'Neill came in? So, despite having the most money at his disposal of any other Villa manager he managed no better than to get us to an average finish. He bought two new defences in the space of 1 calendar month and still played centre-halves as right-backs and right-backs as left backs. He had his favourites and rarely used the bench, despite the fact that our fitness levels were so poor as a team we looked shagged after about 70 minutes. Then, come March we were a waste of time. His famed man management consisted of not saying anything to him save you'll be dumped in the reserves at a whim. and lets not forget the way he left. How to destabilise a club purposely. In january Lerner had started to ask him to address the wages situation and as soon as he realised he wouldn't get the Milner money he left us up the creek. If O'neill had his way we could be further down the road to ruin and for what 3 6 place finishes? Other than the media who else thought it something worth trumpeting for little Aston Villa? Europe? Great. Obviously O'Neill saw it as a distraction seeing the way he threw the towel in when we were in Europe. And a League Cup final? Otheer than 2000 have we ever been so disappointing? We tend to respond in finals after going 1 up we were so dull and poor it was never a surprise that we lost.

Laud O'Neill? Are you bloody crazy? We fell for it, the emperor's new clothes and all that, the proud history bright future, a manager that was going to win us things with a billionaire's money. Turnsd out Lerner was going to have one shot at it and O'Neill wasn't good enough to deliver. We didn't see it then, but it's clear as day now.

Offline supertom

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2014, 02:18:24 PM »
O Neill was close but no cigar. Whilst his football wasn't always brilliant, IMO at it's best he produced the best looking stuff since Little's side. When Ash, Gabby, Carew, Barry, Miner etc were in full flow doing their stuff, we played some great stuff. He made us competitive against top sides (and often matching them for attacking intent in games).

The idea that O Neill's football was dreadful is kind of oversold in my view. Yes we struggled at home to break down defensive sides and lack that little bit of mercurial guile from a good locksmith player. He was very much set on 4-4-fucking-2, and using wingers with the big man, little man combo. Even a Robbie Keane type, who could drop off could have been a very useful option in home games. Still, I'd settle for his average home record over our utterly appalling one.

He wasted money no doubt but his better signings were incredibly successful. We scoffed at breaking records on Young, Milner and Downing, but their impact and sell on fees speak volumes.

He was better than Gregory in my view. I think we came more consistently close to competing with the big boys, and indeed in an even more closed off, difficult era. Also Gregory never managed to get over 60 points. O Neill did it three times, including notching up 64 points in his final season, which is more than Brian Little managed in the year we finished 4th.
Losing that cup final, as it did for Gregory too, also took a lot of gloss off I suppose, as did the annual March melt-downs. I don't simply compare him with JG because his best finish was 6th. We were definitely a better side under O Neill than Gregory. The points, and some of the standout results prove that, and indeed our football (at its best).
O Neill also never lost more than 10 games a season in the Prem for us. That's a very good record indeed. If we could just have turned some of the draws into wins...

Stubborn, outdated, wrongly given carte-blanche by a naive owner, but he was mostly effective. The manner of his leaving has tarnished how he'll be remembered here. He is pube-head, that absolute bastard, as opposed to if he'd resigned in May that year and said "I've gone as far as I can go, it's time for a fresh face" he'd have been remembered more fondly.

Frankly compared to the current state. O Neill's Villa is Brazil circa 1970. An absolute class above the dross now. O Neill also wasn't the only Villa manager to have a healthy transfer kitty to play with. Nor is he the first or last to waste a lot of it. Gregory blew huge amounts. Ron could blow money in his sleep, a Little had some duffers too (with no small amount given to him by the standards of the time).


Offline Richard E

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Re: We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2014, 02:19:33 PM »
I must have imagined Herbert Douglas Ellis.

I must have imagined Graham Turner.

And his replacement (if only.)

 


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