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Author Topic: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Albion double)  (Read 160291 times)

Offline Damo70

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #660 on: February 22, 2015, 12:25:08 PM »
Is there a legal term whereby someone can be held accountable for driving someone to suicide? Because Paulie and PWS' posts with the stats and cold hard facts have really got to me. They might as well have taken it in turns beating me over the head with a blunt instrument.

Offline Billy Walker

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #661 on: February 22, 2015, 12:31:44 PM »
What I find so maddening (to put it extremely mildly) about Lerner is that he manages to  assemble a team of Fox and all these forward thinking people just at the time we are staring down the barrel.  He could have tried to get this calibre of personnel  in at the beginning of his ownership.  He could have tried to bring such people in when O'Neill's reign ended.

Lerner's leadership and thinking is so all over the shop that I wonder how on earth he manages to get up in the morning and dress himself. He is, without doubt in my mind, the reason why we are in this situation again.  Lambert had about nine million quid to put right our squad last summer - nine million quid to pad out a squad that was already desperately short on quality and numbers.   The writing was on the wall when Senderos, Cole and Richardson were signed up.

It's desperate stuff of clusterfuck proportions BUT we aren't down yet.   The figures Paulie has cited above are bone-chillingly bad yet, somehow, we are still around, not cut adrift.  It's going to take a real dogs of war spirit to get us through this - that and an all new karma-busting orange megadot.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #662 on: February 22, 2015, 12:37:31 PM »
What I find so maddening (to put it extremely mildly) about Lerner is that he manages to assemble a team of Fox and all these forward thinking people just at the time we are staring down the barrel.  He could have tried to get this calibre of personnel  in at the beginning of his ownership.  He could have tried to bring such people in when O'Neill's reign ended. 

He did. We had those slick American marketing people such as Bob Kain - I remember serious discussions about IMG bringing in players such as Ronaldo and whether we should bother trying to sign Theirry Henry - then they all disappeared without trace and for no reason.

Offline peter w

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #663 on: February 22, 2015, 12:43:06 PM »
Its no so much that they disappeared as that happens, it's the speed that they disappeared with. one minute we were hearing about our future and then one by one people we heard were great were disappearing. The early years now seem to be summed up with Nike. It sounded great and a real coup at first but late kits and peeling logos showed that it was all thrown together and not part of a masterplan to really propel us forward.

i feel cheated.

Offline tomd2103

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #664 on: February 22, 2015, 12:51:35 PM »
Given how shite everyone down there is, I'd say 13 will do it.

Any way, if you want a positive straw to cling to, we've scored 3 goals in our last 2 games. How often have we managed that?

I reckon Hull and Liverpool at the start of the season, then Palace and Leicester just before Christmas have been the only times this season.

I think that is one of the major things we are now relying on.  We need QPR, Burnley, Leicester and maybe even Sunderland to keep losing and take some heavy beatings on the way, as yet again our goal difference is a problem.

Offline Billy Walker

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #665 on: February 22, 2015, 12:56:39 PM »
What I find so maddening (to put it extremely mildly) about Lerner is that he manages to assemble a team of Fox and all these forward thinking people just at the time we are staring down the barrel.  He could have tried to get this calibre of personnel  in at the beginning of his ownership.  He could have tried to bring such people in when O'Neill's reign ended. 

He did. We had those slick American marketing people such as Bob Kain - I remember serious discussions about IMG bringing in players such as Ronaldo and whether we should bother trying to sign Theirry Henry - then they all disappeared without trace and for no reason.

Yep, I remember those people, too, but like you say, they didn't stick around for some reason.  Maybe Lerner knew he needed top level people from the start but either they sussed him out early on and bailed  or he realised he didn't have the backing to match their vision so he let them go without any idea of where to go next.  Either way, Lerner took on Aston Villa with no firm fixed plan in his head and, as a result of such poor leadership, fuzzy-thinking and decision-making, the club has started to drift and let in water. 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 12:58:17 PM by Billy Walker »

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #666 on: February 22, 2015, 01:00:39 PM »
What I find so maddening (to put it extremely mildly) about Lerner is that he manages to assemble a team of Fox and all these forward thinking people just at the time we are staring down the barrel.  He could have tried to get this calibre of personnel  in at the beginning of his ownership.  He could have tried to bring such people in when O'Neill's reign ended. 

He did. We had those slick American marketing people such as Bob Kain - I remember serious discussions about IMG bringing in players such as Ronaldo and whether we should bother trying to sign Theirry Henry - then they all disappeared without trace and for no reason.

Yep, I remember those people, too, but like you say, they didn't stick around for some reason. Maybe Lerner knew he needed top level people from the start but either they sussed him out early on and bailed or he realised he didn't have the backing to match their vision so he let them go without any idea of where to go next.  Either way, Lerner took on Aston Villa with no firm fixed plan in his head and, as a result of such poor leadership, fuzzy-thinking and decision-making, the club has started to drift and let in water. 

Tom Fox made a good point on Thursday night when he said in not so many words that Randy thought he could bankroll success himself, but then the game changed and he couldn't.

Offline Damo70

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #667 on: February 22, 2015, 01:15:59 PM »
When the poll started I said 'probably not but I'm worried'. My worries increased a hell of a lot yesterday when the new manager bounce didn't work and we lost a game in a way that smacks of a team going down. Turning victory into defeat and all that.

Offline Billy Walker

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #668 on: February 22, 2015, 01:23:26 PM »
What I find so maddening (to put it extremely mildly) about Lerner is that he manages to assemble a team of Fox and all these forward thinking people just at the time we are staring down the barrel.  He could have tried to get this calibre of personnel  in at the beginning of his ownership.  He could have tried to bring such people in when O'Neill's reign ended. 

He did. We had those slick American marketing people such as Bob Kain - I remember serious discussions about IMG bringing in players such as Ronaldo and whether we should bother trying to sign Theirry Henry - then they all disappeared without trace and for no reason.

Yep, I remember those people, too, but like you say, they didn't stick around for some reason. Maybe Lerner knew he needed top level people from the start but either they sussed him out early on and bailed or he realised he didn't have the backing to match their vision so he let them go without any idea of where to go next.  Either way, Lerner took on Aston Villa with no firm fixed plan in his head and, as a result of such poor leadership, fuzzy-thinking and decision-making, the club has started to drift and let in water. 

Tom Fox made a good point on Thursday night when he said in not so many words that Randy thought he could bankroll success himself, but then the game changed and he couldn't.

What was it about the game that changed, I wonder?  The arrival of FFP or Man City?   If it was the former it makes me wonder how on earth we have made such a poor fist of adapting to it when other established clubs seem to have taken it in their stride.  A litany of poor decision-making, bad appointments and no tangible solid plan is what has taken us here.  Maybe Bob Kain and co could see this type of thing a mile off.

Offline Eigentor

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #669 on: February 22, 2015, 02:23:30 PM »
Evertonian flatmate of mine reckons it's Leicester and QPR + 1, with the final spot being decided on the last day of the season.

I would snap your hand off now, if you offered us the chance to take it to the 38th game.  To do that will require something approximating an upturn in form, at least 3-4 wins between now and the end of the season to keep us in contention.

It is quite obvious that our form needs to improve significantly if we are going to have any hope of staying up. Extrapolating from 22 points from 26 games (which have been our points haul so far this season), we'll end up with 32 points, unlikely to be enough to avoid relegation. If we only look at our previous 13 games (approximately 1/3 of a season), we have won 9 points; that implies 8 more points in the coming 12 matches and only 30 points at the end and certain relegation. Judging by our previous 10 matches, where we have won a meagre 3 points, we can only expect four more points, which will leave us with 26 points and hopelessly adrift.

Online Monty

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #670 on: February 22, 2015, 02:28:18 PM »
It's one thing not to gorge the club with money to bring us success - that ship has certainly sailed - but why starve us of money to bring us ruin? He could have definitely contributed a bit more just to keep the club safe. We would hardly be forcibly demoted by FFP for spending an extra £10m last summer - had we miraculously qualified for Europe we might have been barred, but that's an amazing luxury to consider at this point.

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #671 on: February 22, 2015, 02:38:07 PM »
It's one thing not to gorge the club with money to bring us success - that ship has certainly sailed - but why starve us of money to bring us ruin? He could have definitely contributed a bit more just to keep the club safe. We would hardly be forcibly demoted by FFP for spending an extra £10m last summer - had we miraculously qualified for Europe we might have been barred, but that's an amazing luxury to consider at this point.

Exactly.

Not spending £30m in the summer window is totally forgivable and understandable. Spending just the £9m or whatever it was, though, that's a different matter.

Even then, though, I don't think money is the main problem here. The problem strikes me more as one of incompetence plus lack of interest.

Whoever buys us next, I'd rather we had someone with less cash but who was significantly more clued up and knew what they were doing. The whole detached approach of the last few years has been pretty depressing, really.

What sticks in the craw is looking back at all that stuff for four years from them - "don't worry about the money, we know what we're doing", plus the "we will be here through thick and thin", whereas actually, it turned out they didn't know what they were doing (and those of us who raised the wage bill years ago were exactly right to do so), and their interest disappeared abruptly at the very first sign of thin.

I don't go into that whole "he's taking money out of the club" thing, it is demonstrably untrue, he has spent a lot of money. it is just that sometimes you need to do more than throw money at something

Online Monty

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #672 on: February 22, 2015, 02:46:13 PM »
I agree Paulie. He had no plan beyond 'give Martin loads of money'. He certainly didn't have any footballing wisdom around him to ask if, maybe, Martin was the right guy to keep giving that amount of cash. If you compare how we're run to how, again, Swansea and Southampton are run, it's absolutely staggering. We do practically nothing that they do, and we continue to fail while they succeed beyond all expectations, and we act all surprised that it's not working out! It would be funny, actually, were we not Villa fans.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #673 on: February 22, 2015, 02:49:37 PM »
Whoever buys us next, I'd rather we had someone with less cash but who was significantly more clued up and knew what they were doing. The whole detached approach of the last few years has been pretty depressing, really.

I don't go into that whole "he's taking money out of the club" thing, it is demonstrably untrue, he has spent a lot of money. it is just that sometimes you need to do more than throw money at something
On the first point, I've been saying that for two or three years, usually in response to the 'better the devil you know' argument.  It's difficult to see how the decision-making at the club could possibly have been worse over the last few years.  That terrible management has cost the club an awful lot of money that could otherwise have been spent on the team.

On the second point, I don't think for a moment that Lerner is trying to make money from the club, and I don't think many people really do believe that.  What I do think is that he has long since decided to cut his losses and spends the barest minimum.  In that sense I think it's fair to say the we're being run not in the best interests of the team, or even the club, but in the best interests of Randy's bank account.  That would account for Monty's point about starving us of money to bring us to ruin.  Randy no longer cares about us as much as he cares about saving money.

Online john2710

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Re: Is this the season... (Poll reset after Hull away)
« Reply #674 on: February 22, 2015, 02:54:34 PM »
At best I think it could well go to a final day decider with Burnley & at this moment in time I'd take that. Because no matter how I look at it I do not see us pulling ourselves away from it.

Shit teams know to defend deep, crowd Benteke & wait for us to make a fuck up. All too often over the last 4 seasons we've obliged.

 


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