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Author Topic: Ball possession  (Read 25777 times)

Offline Ads

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2014, 08:42:39 PM »
Cleverley looks very tidy, although he was a bit mental today by pinging over a lot through ball and a wonderful free kick, but then under cooked two or three simple passes.

Benteke up top will aid possession at it will give our attacks a focal point and the ball will stick to the beast.

Offline Risso

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2014, 08:55:50 PM »
I'm not going to read too much into today's result, they are a much better team than us and we decided to gift them three goals in a very short period of time. It's not nice to watch, but these things happen.

We are clearly harder to beat on the evidence thus far, although that's a situation which changes potentially dramatically when we pick up injuries. It is still a move in the right direction, though.

However, is anyone else worried that we don't really seem to be doing much to keep the ball more often than we have for the last two years?

Today, 29% possession at home to Arsenal. OK, they're a possession side, it's not that much of a shock. However, we won at home to Hull, but did so with them having the majority of the possession (45-55). At home to Newcastle, who are a poor side, we gave them 60% possession.

I appreciate that possession does not automatically convert into results, but it is hard to consistently play well when you spend so much of the time without the ball. Yes, giving possession away and counter attacking away from home means you can still actually have control of the game (Anfield, for example), possession means nothing if you do nothing with it.

However, we are - currently - one of the bottom three sides for possession and passes completed, and we have been for the last two seasons.

I reckon Lambert wants to improve it. I am just not hugely convinced he knows how to. He certainly hasn't thus far, over the two seasons he has been here.

You will not find many sides who pretty much never have a great deal of the ball and manage to do well.

So, when does this start to improve?

Great post.

I get that we're never going to play "Total Football" but the lack of time we have the ball, whoever we play, drives me nuts.  Last week against Liverpool we did quite well first half, but then second half can't have had more than 15% possession.  Every single throw in went to them, every time Guzan got the ball it was a hoof up field.

Offline steffo

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2014, 09:45:12 PM »
The answer is so very simple. When you play a narrow game without quality players. You are fucked. You keep possession by making the pitch wide. Winger or wingers are a banned player under our current and previous Scottish management. We are expecting our full backs to provide width, which wingers provide, would you expect a winger to defend like a full back?

It's a defensive tactic, hence our shite home record.


Online Dante Lavelli

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2014, 10:21:05 PM »
The answer is so very simple. When you play a narrow game without quality players. You are fucked. You keep possession by making the pitch wide. Winger or wingers are a banned player under our current and previous Scottish management. We are expecting our full backs to provide width, which wingers provide, would you expect a winger to defend like a full back?

It's a defensive tactic, hence our shite home record.

I don't agree with that.  Arsenal, Liverpool and Barcelona, three clubs who look to dominate possession do not play with wingers.
Tactically, I'm pretty sure, I've heard the managers talk about how they plan to get more players in the central areas of the pitch (= less wingers/centre forward) in order to own that area.

Offline Phil from the upper holte

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2014, 10:29:35 PM »
I wonder what the possession stat's were for the first half compared to the 2nd, the 3 goals totally killed it.

Offline frankmosswasmyuncle

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2014, 10:46:50 PM »
Can't help but agree Risso!
Why the f**k can't we keep the ball from our own throw ins - ever!
And even a thick old twat like me knows that Guzan hoofing it up top will simply result in the ball going straight back to the oppo who will then launch another attack!

Couldn't give a poopoo about possession stats - I just want us to stop giving the ball away so easily to the opposition who don't seem to be trying that hard to win it back!!!

I want US to have it so WE can create a threat to THEM!
Too much to expect?

 
UTV!
 

Offline adrenachrome

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2014, 12:00:20 AM »
I gave up on throw ins many years ago as it was causing too much stress. On dead balls into the box, I thought we were improving this season mainly due to Senderos having a clue, but a late change of partner clearly cramped his style.

What drives me completely crazy is when, for reasons fortuitous or contrived,  a player has acres of space in front of him and does not attack the space with other players running to exploit this. Some posters might counter that Delph likes to drive forward, but I would argue he runs into markers and uses his quick feet o create space for others.

The only rational explanation is the need to maintain defensive shape, but this excuse is wearing thin.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2014, 01:58:10 AM »
You will not find many sides who pretty much never have a great deal of the ball and manage to do well.

So, when does this start to improve?

The simple answer is when we have a decent manager. I was thinking about this today, before the game, it's so long since we had a decent manager. Before anybody mentions MON, let's just remember how crap the football was under him.

A side should be judged on how they play at home, it's about taking the game to the opposition, showing them what you're made of, how you like to express yourself as a team. Away from home it's easy to play on the counter attack and try and snatch a goal, thereafter defend with 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes. Great for 3 points and the away fans but shit to watch.

Problem is we don't have a manager that knows how to set up the team to entertain and get the 3 points. We opt for castration and dragging them down to our level in the hope we might get lucky. And before anybody mentions budget, remind yourselves how the clubs below us, that humiliate us in the cups, don't seem to struggle with putting a few passes together and actually look like they know what they're doing.

For me, the blame lies firmly at Lerner's door. He hasn't either the knowledge or the courage to try or ask for anything different from his managers. It's all about friendship, nice little chats and keeping us believing things will improve despite having tactically inept managers in charge.

It really is becoming tiresome and like the football, very, very predictable.

Offline villan from luton

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2014, 02:24:25 AM »
I agree we.  have to be more positive against teams in our league so to speak. Howeverm how much of the Liverpool possession last week was people knocking the ball to each other in their own half. Possession it is, but is it positive. What we need to do after this run of games is be positive against the teams in our league. We have Cleverley in midfield to provide a bit of extra class and hopefully Benteke back soon, he can hold things up and bring others into play and that does make a difference

Offline villan from luton

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2014, 02:39:52 AM »
You will not find many sides who pretty much never have a great deal of the ball and manage to do well.

So, when does this start to improve?

The simple answer is when we have a decent manager. I was thinking about this today, before the game, it's so long since we had a decent manager. Before anybody mentions MON, let's just remember how crap the football was under him.

A side should be judged on how they play at home, it's about taking the game to the opposition, showing them what you're made of, how you like to express yourself as a team. Away from home it's easy to play on the counter attack and try and snatch a goal, thereafter defend with 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes. Great for 3 points and the away fans but shit to watch.

Problem is we don't have a manager that knows how to set up the team to entertain and get the 3 points. We opt for castration and dragging them down to our level in the hope we might get lucky. And before anybody mentions budget, remind yourselves how the clubs below us, that humiliate us in the cups, don't seem to struggle with putting a few passes together and actually look like they know what they're doing.

For me, the blame lies firmly at Lerner's door. He hasn't either the knowledge or the courage to try or ask for anything different from his managers. It's all about friendship, nice little chats and keeping us believing things will improve despite having tactically inept managers in charge.

It really is becoming tiresome and like the football, very, very predictable.

So who do you consider is a decent manager? We are actually third in the table having played 2 of the top teams in our first five games

Offline taylorsworkrate

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2014, 06:28:07 AM »
You will not find many sides who pretty much never have a great deal of the ball and manage to do well.

So, when does this start to improve?

The simple answer is when we have a decent manager. I was thinking about this today, before the game, it's so long since we had a decent manager. Before anybody mentions MON, let's just remember how crap the football was under him.

A side should be judged on how they play at home, it's about taking the game to the opposition, showing them what you're made of, how you like to express yourself as a team. Away from home it's easy to play on the counter attack and try and snatch a goal, thereafter defend with 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes. Great for 3 points and the away fans but shit to watch.

Problem is we don't have a manager that knows how to set up the team to entertain and get the 3 points. We opt for castration and dragging them down to our level in the hope we might get lucky. And before anybody mentions budget, remind yourselves how the clubs below us, that humiliate us in the cups, don't seem to struggle with putting a few passes together and actually look like they know what they're doing.

For me, the blame lies firmly at Lerner's door. He hasn't either the knowledge or the courage to try or ask for anything different from his managers. It's all about friendship, nice little chats and keeping us believing things will improve despite having tactically inept managers in charge.

It really is becoming tiresome and like the football, very, very predictable.

So who do you consider is a decent manager? We are actually third in the table having played 2 of the top teams in our first five games

We've had a great and unexpected start. However, I don't think a tiny sample of games makes up for how laughably poor we were in the two previous seasons under Lambert.

He shouldn't have been here to have this start to the season.

Offline Villafirst

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2014, 08:48:44 AM »
Will we ever get more than 50% possession in a match? Even Hull at home recently we got less than 50%.

Offline manic-road

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2014, 08:53:54 AM »
Will we ever get more than 50% possession in a match? Even Hull at home recently we got less than 50%.

That's irrelevant though, less than 50% possession but we mainly battered them and should have been five up, we won the game fairly comfortably so I don't see what the possession stats again ave to do with this game.

Offline Ads

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2014, 09:27:08 AM »
The second half was effectively meaningless yesterday. The game had been lost when the third went in, so it's difficult to read too much into what happened statistically.

Offline passitsideways

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Re: Ball possession
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2014, 09:44:13 AM »
Unfortunately I think we'll have to wait a while yet before seeing whether this new midfield trio of Westwood/Delph/Cleverley can really keep the ball as well as they theoretically should be able to (when considering their alleged individual strengths); at least until after this run of matches.

On the bright side though, hopefully Benteke and Sanchez will be better settled by the time that comes around.

 


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