Ball possession

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm not going to read too much into today's result, they are a much better team than us and we decided to gift them three goals in a very short period of time. It's not nice to watch, but these things happen.

We are clearly harder to beat on the evidence thus far, although that's a situation which changes potentially dramatically when we pick up injuries. It is still a move in the right direction, though.

However, is anyone else worried that we don't really seem to be doing much to keep the ball more often than we have for the last two years?

Today, 29% possession at home to Arsenal. OK, they're a possession side, it's not that much of a shock. However, we won at home to Hull, but did so with them having the majority of the possession (45-55). At home to Newcastle, who are a poor side, we gave them 60% possession.

I appreciate that possession does not automatically convert into results, but it is hard to consistently play well when you spend so much of the time without the ball. Yes, giving possession away and counter attacking away from home means you can still actually have control of the game (Anfield, for example), possession means nothing if you do nothing with it.

However, we are - currently - one of the bottom three sides for possession and passes completed, and we have been for the last two seasons.

I reckon Lambert wants to improve it. I am just not hugely convinced he knows how to. He certainly hasn't thus far, over the two seasons he has been here.

You will not find many sides who pretty much never have a great deal of the ball and manage to do well.

So, when does this start to improve?

[ChicagoLion]

Agree, what is frustrating is the fact that we seem willing to give up possession so easily.
Unforced errors if you like.
Add the hopeful punt forward and Guzans kicking being  pretty poor.

I think it is the way we play under Lambert, sit deep, defend the area between the penalty box and half way line and try to spring a counter attack. The only movement off the ball is the counter attack.

[PeterWithesShin]

What frustrates me is we keep seeing glimpses of how they can pass it around nicely, and even indulge us with a bit of pass and move sometimes.

[PaulWinch again]

Completely agree and I've said for a while, over the long term we are not going to progress unless we have at least parity in terms of possession during a game. You can't keeping giving teams two thirds plus of the possession and hope to win too many games.

[pauliewalnuts]

What frustrates me is we keep seeing glimpses of how they can pass it around nicely, and even indulge us with a bit of pass and move sometimes.

That's the thing, in short bursts we can do it - and have done for both Lambert's seasons here - but we just don't do it anywhere near enough.

I know it sounds obvious, and maybe the fact that it does sound that way means I am missing something, but surely it is easier to improve as a team if you pass it to team mates more rather than the opposition, and actually try to keep the ball?

We also very rarely see our players move into space to receive the ball, either, which doesn't help. The frequency with which we'll have a man in possession and nobody makes themselves available for him, leading to a hopeful punt up field - which is at best 50/50 - is amazing.

[PaulWinch again]

What frustrates me is we keep seeing glimpses of how they can pass it around nicely, and even indulge us with a bit of pass and move sometimes.

That's the thing, in short bursts we can do it - and have done for both Lambert's seasons here - but we just don't do it anywhere near enough.

I know it sounds obvious, and maybe the fact that it does sound that way means I am missing something, but surely it is easier to improve as a team if you pass it to team mates more rather than the opposition, and actually try to keep the ball?

We also very rarely see our players move into space to receive the ball, either, which doesn't help. The frequency with which we'll have a man in possession and nobody makes themselves available for him, leading to a hopeful punt up field - which is at best 50/50 - is amazing.

Yep it's very amateur and needs to be addressed.

[KevinGage]

Possession stats can be misleading.   

I'm sure the classic Olbiyun side under Mowbray scored high in that regard, but did very little in the final third. 

It's quite possible that you could be a good side and perhaps only 7th/8th in the overall possession stats across the league.

However, when you are consistently in the bottom 3 when it comes to ball retention (as we have been these past few seasons), it follows that you aren't going to be much cop. 

We do look more resolute defensively, but ball retention clearly needs to be improved. 

[Gregorys Boy]

Last two seasons are possession and defending have been the weakest aspect of our game, we have done something to address the later, if we can improve the former remains to be seen.  The signings of Sancez and Cleverly should improve things, but it is about getting the right balance in midfield.  At the moment it looks like we still struggle when we play teams with pace in midfield and just get over run.  But we should have enough to make decent progress over the season. 

[pauliewalnuts]

That's it, KG, having lots of the ball is not a guarantee of success. Unless you do something with it, it is not going to be much help.

However, how often do teams consistently do well whilst giving the opposition 60% or more possession?

[PaulWinch again]

Possession stats can be misleading.   

I'm sure the classic Olbiyun side under Mowbray scored high in that regard, but did very little in the final third. 

It's quite possible that you could be a good side and perhaps only 7th/8th in the overall possession stats across the league.

However, when you are consistently in the bottom 3 when it comes to ball retention (as we have been these past few seasons), it follows that you aren't going to be much cop. 

We do look more resolute defensively, but ball retention clearly needs to be improved. 

I'd agree with that, we don't need to be like Arsenal but we need to be a lot better than we currently are.

[onje_villa]

We have such poor possession ratings as we are so poor technically. As someone else said you're not going to win many games with 30% possession.

[PaulWinch again]

We have such poor possession ratings as we are so poor technically. As someone else said you're not going to win many games with 30% possession.

Certainly not on a consistent basis.

[PaulWinch again]

The other problem with having 30% possession or less is that teams will start to work out the only way you can have success is counter attacking. It completely limits the ways in which you can win a game. If you have more possession it gives you so many more opportunities to win games.

[barrysleftfoot]

 We give the ball away far too cheaply.We need to be more confident on the ball, and encouraged to try things.Theres a time to speed up the play and a time to just take the sting out of the game and keep the ball for a bit.We try to play on the break, and at speed all the time, hence the reason why we give the ball away.

 Granted the fact that CB is not playing doesn't give us much option but to play on the counter, but Cleverley, Delph and Richardson need to have been better on the ball today, and Senderos and Aly need to be encouraged to stop booting the ball away.Vlaar would have tried to keep the ball better.

[onje_villa]

We have such poor possession ratings as we are so poor technically. As someone else said you're not going to win many games with 30% possession.

Certainly not on a consistent basis.

I think this is the problem with the whole "the performance doesn't matter" brigade. They think that because we held on in some games and ended up winning them that that is repeatable and a means to the end but in actual fact if we ever want to improve (or entertain our fans) we have to learn to compete better in matches.