Aay up, ecky thump, it's Le Tour 2014

[lovejoy]

Actually (look it up if you like), Froome's time on Ventoux was about four minutes down on the likes of Pantani, and while it was on a par with Armstrong (who was never a brilliant climber until he started doping) you could, if you weren't so bloody suspicious, say that training techniques etc. have advanced in the ten years since Armstrong's peak. It's well known that Sky have pioneered many new training regimes that the other teams have had to follow to keep up.

It's a bit like saying that Usain Bolt has to be on drugs because his times are so much faster than Astafa Powell in 2005.

Have to disagree mate, Pantanis time that is super quick was set in an ITT. So are nearly all the top 20 times. The times I gave you are the fastest road race stage times, of which Froome is right up there with the fastest dopers.

As for Bolt. Jamaica hardly have a good record regarding doping lately. He's also a freak of nature and has been since a teenager. What was Froomes past record? Did he show signs of being a potential freak?

I don't think all TDF winners are freaks. Froome was second in 2011 Vuelta and 2012 Tour so his win last year wasn't exactly out of the blue.

[Dave Cooper please]

Obviously you've made your mind up so I'm not going to get involved in pointless debate, life's too short!

I just don't think I could enjoy watching sport if I had decided in advance that the best in the field were all cheating but each to their own.

[taylorsworkrate]

Actually (look it up if you like), Froome's time on Ventoux was about four minutes down on the likes of Pantani, and while it was on a par with Armstrong (who was never a brilliant climber until he started doping) you could, if you weren't so bloody suspicious, say that training techniques etc. have advanced in the ten years since Armstrong's peak. It's well known that Sky have pioneered many new training regimes that the other teams have had to follow to keep up.

It's a bit like saying that Usain Bolt has to be on drugs because his times are so much faster than Astafa Powell in 2005.

Have to disagree mate, Pantanis time that is super quick was set in an ITT. So are nearly all the top 20 times. The times I gave you are the fastest road race stage times, of which Froome is right up there with the fastest dopers.

As for Bolt. Jamaica hardly have a good record regarding doping lately. He's also a freak of nature and has been since a teenager. What was Froomes past record? Did he show signs of being a potential freak?

I don't think all TDF winners are freaks. Froome was second in 2011 Vuelta and 2012 Tour so his win last year wasn't exactly out of the blue.

Add to that his dominant performances in the races leading up to the tour last year. It's ok saying that Froomes times are up there with the fastest dopers, but what people aren't getting is that Froome is a far more natural climber than said dopers. So it stands to reason that a clean Froome would have similar times to a doped Armstrong / Basso etc

[aj2k77]

Explain how a clean Froome can climb with the fastest of dopers and TT with the fastest too?

If Froome was as skinny as he is and climbing at the speeds he does i'd be a little suspicious, with him having no CV before placing 2nd at a GT BUT with him being as skinny as he is, climbing and the speeds he does and TTing at the speeds he does it just makes him unbelievable.

You're right though, I've already made my mind up with the sport. It's still infested with bad guys. Riis and Vinokourov being DS's are a joke.

I want to watch the sport like I used to and marvel at the battle going on but everytime I saw something that was unbelievable it turns out it was exactly that.

[UK Redsox]

I want to watch the sport like I used to and marvel at the battle going on but everytime I saw something that was unbelievable it turns out it was exactly that.

In the Hinault/Lemond ESPN doc there was an interesting segment where Lemond was talking about how when Armstrong starting winning, the media sought him out (as the only US winner of the TdF) for a quote.

Lemond, having insider info early on that Armstrong was cheating, said that he could not come straight out and say that (with Armstrong being very litigious / threatening and also not wishing to create problems with the cancer campaigners) but that he didn't want to say that it was brilliant that the TdF had another US winner. Therefore, Lemond carefully chose the word "unbelievable" for all his answers; a word that the interviewer/readers could interpret as they wished.

[RunRickyRun]

Riis and Vinokourov being DS's are a joke.

It doesn't sit easy with me either.

This year's TDF was very mountain heavy and many performances did not pass the bullsh*t meter test. For example, I've rarely ever seen a breakaway rider enter the last climb with a slim 2 minute advantage hold the lead against all the leaders and their strongest domestiques. The fact that it happened twice with the same rider raises huge suspicions with me.

My opinion is that the peleton was relatively clean in 2012 and 2013 (post Armstong) but this year, some teams were unhappy with Sky's domination (either through jealousy or suspicion) and went back to some of their bad habits.