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Author Topic: I must be in the minority...  (Read 13862 times)

Offline supertom

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2014, 12:17:09 PM »
...and then I think not as he has presided over some deeply embarrassing results.

Yes, but then we also have some excellent results. Arsenal, Manchester City and Chelsea spring to mind.

The problem is, those matches you mention consist of one third of our entire win count, and we managed to lose more than half the matches we played this season - P38 W10 D7 L21.

They were good results and performances, yes, but they're of limited use if you go on to get your arse comprehensively handed to you by the likes of Fulham, Palace or Stoke, all of whom did the double over us.
I also wouldn't be holding out too much hope of matching our results against the big boys next season. So if results stay similarly shite against the shit teams, then we'll be cutting it even finer by the end of next season, or worse, we'll go down.

Offline QBVILLA

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2014, 12:24:31 PM »
Lambert is well out of his depth. He still would be even with a bigger budget. He's got no tactical nous at all and 9/10 makes the wrong decision.
Keep him at the club and we're just setting ourselves up for another season of struggle. The more we flirt with relegation, the more chance we'll eventually go down.

With the current squad it is inevitable. Personally I think managing to keep that group of players in the top flight is an achievement. If the entire squad was put up for sale tomorrow i'd say only three or four would go to Premiership clubs.
He bought most of these players and chose to alienate established Premier League players at the club. He spent almost 40 million in two summers as well. Not a great deal, but not peanuts either. Instead of the 13-14 players he bought, he could have bought half as many players who were better quality.

Ultimately, results fall on the managers head. Look at what Pulis managed at Palace with a poorer squad and less money. And Pulis is an average manager.

Just playing devils advocate here. Like I said I don't think given the choice he'd have signed League One players had he been able to sign established stars. As for his signings, wind back twelve months and Lowton and Westwood were being talked about as future England players. Benteke as a £30m striker and we were signing Okore which was viewed as a real coup. Nobody minded Hutton and Ireland being bombed out as they were 'shit' or had an attitude problem. Guzan had showed why he deserved to oust Given as number one and everything looked rosy. This season it has gone tits up. Benteke and Okore (assuming he is as good as people were saying) being injured is a huge reason we've finished down in 15th place. Lambert has been left trying to polish a turd.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2014, 12:27:21 PM »
...and then I think not as he has presided over some deeply embarrassing results.

Yes, but then we also have some excellent results. Arsenal, Manchester City and Chelsea spring to mind.

The problem is, those matches you mention consist of one third of our entire win count, and we managed to lose more than half the matches we played this season - P38 W10 D7 L21.

They were good results and performances, yes, but they're of limited use if you go on to get your arse comprehensively handed to you by the likes of Fulham, Palace or Stoke, all of whom did the double over us.

Don't make us even shitter than we actually are, we drew 8, yes EIGHT, and only lost 20!

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2014, 12:28:37 PM »
...and then I think not as he has presided over some deeply embarrassing results.

Yes, but then we also have some excellent results. Arsenal, Manchester City and Chelsea spring to mind.

The problem is, those matches you mention consist of one third of our entire win count, and we managed to lose more than half the matches we played this season - P38 W10 D7 L21.

They were good results and performances, yes, but they're of limited use if you go on to get your arse comprehensively handed to you by the likes of Fulham, Palace or Stoke, all of whom did the double over us.

Don't make us even shitter than we actually are, we drew 8, yes EIGHT, and only lost 20!

Good point.

Offline JUAN PABLO

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2014, 12:31:42 PM »
...and then I think not as he has presided over some deeply embarrassing results.

Yes, but then we also have some excellent results. Arsenal, Manchester City and Chelsea spring to mind.

true  but not many , not as many as palace and sunderland etc etc and still can not believe we won the Man city game . I was over the moon with chavski result , not sure we would have won it with will I am not being sent off.

I thought we were good against Liverpool , my favourite performance but there was so many terrible performances too . We broke every awful record this year and our better players have been the ones were MON's signings.

I just can not believe how backwards we have gone since the first two games .

Things like that is just being negative for the shake of it.  We fully deserved that win against Chelsea, yes things might have been different without the sending offs, but that is Football, we played our part, the rest is fate.

There's been so many down points this season can we at least enjoy the few highs...

we did , I was over the moon but palace looked better against them when they played them .   I just saying there was not a lot to get excited about really , Its been bloody awful to be honest.

And Lambert does not deserve any longer to be manager of Aston Villa.

Offline Monty

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2014, 12:32:07 PM »
I think Lambert signed some pretty good players, actually - last season we saw what Westwood and Lowton can do when on form - but his coaching and tactics are so terribly inadequate that these players actually got worse the more we were exposed to them.

We have to wise up. We cannot accept, in 20-twatting-14, a manager who thinks that long balls to a big man are an acceptable attacking tactic, a manager who doesn't trust the idea of wingers, a manager who plays five at the back at home, a manager who thinks he's onto something novel with this 'number 10' concept and proceeds to patronise us all to death about it.

MON was stuck in the '70s, and it showed. Lambert is stuck in the '90s, and it's showing. We need a manager who understands the game as it's played now, and as fans we need to get out of our puritanical, skill-mistrusting, ploddy English biases and start to demand more thought and higher standards from our manager.

Offline LeeB

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2014, 01:00:06 PM »
I think Lambert signed some pretty good players, actually - last season we saw what Westwood and Lowton can do when on form - but his coaching and tactics are so terribly inadequate that these players actually got worse the more we were exposed to them.

We have to wise up. We cannot accept, in 20-twatting-14, a manager who thinks that long balls to a big man are an acceptable attacking tactic, a manager who doesn't trust the idea of wingers, a manager who plays five at the back at home, a manager who thinks he's onto something novel with this 'number 10' concept and proceeds to patronise us all to death about it.

MON was stuck in the '70s, and it showed. Lambert is stuck in the '90s, and it's showing. We need a manager who understands the game as it's played now, and as fans we need to get out of our puritanical, skill-mistrusting, ploddy English biases and start to demand more thought and higher standards from our manager.

With this subject, I'm always put in mind of Charlie Aitken talking on the official history video about what a shambles we were in the 60's, and in particular how we plodded on playing the w formation when 442 was taking over.

Some things never change.

Offline Rolta

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2014, 01:29:24 PM »
I can see this getting merged with the Lambert thread soon as it will be the same things said on both.

I think Lambert has had a harder job than most of us thought, however, whether he's had to cope with financial restraints, injuries, his backroom staff fucking him over or whatever else may or may not be going on, it's no excuse for the utter dross style of football we play most weeks.

I'm inclined to think that the things listed are a pretty convincing set of excuses!

We've seen some moments of promise with Lambert, and on a very tight budget.

Offline Monty

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2014, 01:33:59 PM »
Rolta many of the things you say are correct, but it has to be acknowledged that he really thinks long balls constitute a valid attacking method, that his 'I call them number 10s, number 10s I call them' stuff was incredibly embarrassing, and that he has absolutely no long-term vision for how we should play and it shows in the muddled performances they cack out every week.

He has this in common with almost every other failing manager over the last season - Moyes, Sherwood, Hughton, Pardew - and stands opposed to every successful manager this season in this regard - Pochettino, Rodgers, Martinez, even Pellegrini (AVB is the anomaly here, and there might be more to that story than initially meets the eye). These things are not coincidences.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 01:40:12 PM by Monty »

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2014, 01:38:41 PM »
I can see this getting merged with the Lambert thread soon as it will be the same things said on both.

I think Lambert has had a harder job than most of us thought, however, whether he's had to cope with financial restraints, injuries, his backroom staff fucking him over or whatever else may or may not be going on, it's no excuse for the utter dross style of football we play most weeks.

I'm inclined to think that the things listed are a pretty convincing set of excuses!

We've seen some moments of promise with Lambert, and on a very tight budget.

His backroom staff fucking him over is no excuse at all, really.

If Lambert did know what was going on, that's terrible for allowing it to do so in the first place and for letting it continue. If he didn't know what was going on, then that's probably worse. Neither of those cases make good reading for him.

The long ball tactics thing the players were unhappy about, for example, did he know about that?

If he didn't ask C and K to train the team in them, why did he not stop it? And not knowing they were doing it is not an excuse - every single one of us noticed the endless hoofing that went on. Didn't Lambert? Didn't he think, "Hang on, what's going on here?" and look into it?

I agree, he is in an unfortunate position now, it's not nice for anyone to know what direction their career is going to go in and to be left in limbo like this, with the chance at any point that you'll get sacked. I feel bad for him on that front. On a personal level, I actually like the bloke. All that shit about him mumbling and saying the same things over and again to the media, I don't really give a toss about.

I was also totally behind him at the end of last season, and I also wanted him here in the first place. It's just that, right now, if I think of reasons he shouldn't get the sack, I can think of hardly any.

There is no suggestion that he deserves the sack for not getting this squad into the top eight or anything daft, it is a dreadful squad, injuries have played their part (mind you, a CB in January rather than Grant fecking Holt would have been sensible), but Lambert has managed to pull from that squad even less than you'd expect from them this season. Poor management, baffling tactics, you can't just write these off because we've had some injuries.

Another point regarding the awful squad, lest we forget, these are mostly players he bought himself. If there is a limit to wages, you are always going to be forced to shop in certain markets, but I struggle to see why he'd waste money on Bowery, Helenius, Tonev, Kozak and co when he could have addressed the glaring problem position instead.

Nice bloke, reasonable first season, but a truiy awful second one, in which he's amassed some of the least impressive statistics in the history of this club. Not nearly good enough, even when you take into account mitigating factors, I'm afraid.

Offline Singapore Villa

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2014, 01:54:18 PM »
...but I want Lambert to stay.


As Villa fans we all know one thing. The last three seasons we have been more than lucky. We have avoided relegation by the skin of our teeth which is not good enough for the mighty Aston Villa.

However.

When you look at it Lambert was bought in to do one thing: minimise the wage bill; a task made infinitely difficult by the fact he had to completely restructure a team, and throw out the crap from the previous two, three, even four seasons, purchased at high prices on ridiculous wages. It's clear to see that some of PL's signings were also utter rubbish and didn't work out the way he planned, but you show me a club where every single signing has worked out perfectly. On the other hand, there are a few good players that have worked out.

PL's tactics weren't perfect either but I'd love you to show me a manager who gets every decision spot-on. We're playing in the most advanced, quickest, most aggressive, talented and spectacular football league in the world. Things will never always go in our favour.

I'd be stupid if I said that we're not a struggling club and there were times this season when I literally sat down and worked out how likely we were to be sent down, which ended with a 'highly likely' most of the times. For the last three seasons we've been flirting with relegation and I think that's something Lerner has realised. He knows we can't carry on with little to no investment or we'll end up like Leeds, Wigan, Portsmouth, and start on a steep and slippery slope to the lower leagues.


I'm fully aware that continuing in this state will send us down, it's obvious and it doesn't take a genius to see it, but I just think sacking Lambert will be us wasting a good manager. The club is as good as sold (according to a lot of people in a lot of places), so let someone come in who will allow Lambert a bit more freedom and money, and I'm sure he'll do a better job. If, by Christmas, he's not stepped things up then I'll be the first to say he should go, but I firmly believe now is not the time.

Before you start ripping me apart, I'm not saying that another manager wouldn't have done a better job but with the task ahead I think a few of them would have run away without reaching the end of the interview. Which is something I admire PL for. He actually stepped up to the plate and took this job on. It's not been easy, and he's perhaps not done it to the standard that us Villa fans would like, but there is one thing that we can all thank him for: He's kept us in the Premier League.


I just wanted to share my opinion.

Love & hugs.

Mark

Is that you Paul?

Online Bad English

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2014, 01:59:24 PM »
I really, really really hate these vague thread titles that give no clue as to the subject matter. I shall take my grievance to another thread.

Offline claretandbeer

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2014, 02:00:11 PM »
Rolta many of the things you say are correct, but it has to be acknowledged that he really thinks long balls constitute a valid attacking method, that his 'I call them number 10s, number 10s I call them' stuff was incredibly embarrassing, and that he has absolutely no long-term vision for how we should play and it shows in the muddled performances they cack out every week.

He has this in common with almost every other failing manager over the last season - Moyes, Sherwood, Hughton, Pardew - and stands opposed to every successful manager this season in this regard - Pochettino, Rodgers, Martinez, even Pellegrini (AVB is the anomaly here, and there might be more to that story than initially meets the eye). These things are not coincidences.

Spot on.This is the big change in English football.Swansea's visit this season had me longing for that type of football ,they played us off the park but poor finishing let them down.Lambert's record prior to joining Villa had me hailing him as the Messiah but his football is almost a rehash of MON's.To be fair he recognises the need for an extra player in midfield,a number 10,but the players he has put behind the main striker,Weimann,Bacuna ,Albrighton and even Agbonlahor at times ,are woefully unsuited to that rôle.West Hoolahan,not the greatest nor the right age,showed for a while against us the movement ,prompting and finishing needed for that position.Lambert like Moyes is not a bad manager but they seem to be yesterday's men

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2014, 02:02:47 PM »
The absolute worst thing to happen would be to get rid of the manager now, with the future of the club in limbo. Once that is sorted the managerial situation will take care of itself.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: I must be in the minority...
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2014, 02:07:52 PM »
If we were getting beaten narrowly with a squad looking focused and fully committed to the cause, with a consistent design to our play I'd be willing to maybe give him the benefit of the doubt. However, we have been getting destroyed which suggests either a) the manager doesn't prepare properly, and/or b) the players no longer believe in his direction. Being so easily a number of goals down as it was again at the weekend and that inept level of display has become a problem that is repeating itself and not an isolated incident. I respect anyone who wants to keep him on as manager due to other circumstances, but I don't agree with retaining him any longer.

 


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