Culverhouse and Karsa suspended (Now both sacked: Reply #876)

[kippaxvilla2]

Joleon LescottSquare

[brontebilly]

I remember when we were all up in arms that Atkinson spent the summer in the US covering the World Cup with ITV. He said he was watching some of the best players in the world and hinted this would influence our signings.

Then he came back and signed John Fucking Fashanu.

BFR and others of his ilk like El Tel were primarily interested in one thing, money. Wasnt Venables appointment at Leeds delayed because he was doing a TV program in Spain or something? BFR could have been really good but didnt work hard enough. A nearly man at United and Villa. Ferguson in comparison worked his balls off to make a success of Man United and was adaptable to change. The arm around the shoulder management only takes you so far.

MON while not having the money motivation that the likes of Venables had, also ultimately fell short as a manager due to his laziness too imo. Some of the stories you hear about the end of his time at Sunderland and what the likes of Walford were up to on the training ground are comical.

[Villa in Denmark]

O'Neill was hardly ever on the training ground.  A lot of managers aren't these days.  There's a theory that familiarity breeds contempt so they keep their distance to have maximum impact on match day.  That's the theory anyway.

Actually the opposite is the case - it's a really old-fashioned thing to do, based on the days when the manager ran absolutely everything in the club. Now, with the continental coach style more fashionable, most managers spend a very long time at least involved in planning training, and many are permanent fixtures there. I remember Iniesta saying how Pep was always the first there and the last out.

Sort of reminds of something I read about a "coaching philosophy" from the 20s where a certain school of thought maintained that players shouldn't train with the ball during the week to make them hungrier to do something with it on Saturdays.

[dave.woodhall]

O'Neill was hardly ever on the training ground.  A lot of managers aren't these days.  There's a theory that familiarity breeds contempt so they keep their distance to have maximum impact on match day.  That's the theory anyway.

Actually the opposite is the case - it's a really old-fashioned thing to do, based on the days when the manager ran absolutely everything in the club. Now, with the continental coach style more fashionable, most managers spend a very long time at least involved in planning training, and many are permanent fixtures there. I remember Iniesta saying how Pep was always the first there and the last out.

Sort of reminds of something I read about a "coaching philosophy" from the 20s where a certain school of thought maintained that players shouldn't train with the ball during the week to make them hungrier to do something with it on Saturdays.

Danny Blanchflower still spoke of that in the fifties.

[mr underhill]

well we've obviously been guilty of the same practice in 2013/14 only we include match days

[Ron Manager]

O'Neill was hardly ever on the training ground.  A lot of managers aren't these days.  There's a theory that familiarity breeds contempt so they keep their distance to have maximum impact on match day.  That's the theory anyway.

Actually the opposite is the case - it's a really old-fashioned thing to do, based on the days when the manager ran absolutely everything in the club. Now, with the continental coach style more fashionable, most managers spend a very long time at least involved in planning training, and many are permanent fixtures there. I remember Iniesta saying how Pep was always the first there and the last out.

Sort of reminds of something I read about a "coaching philosophy" from the 20s where a certain school of thought maintained that players shouldn't train with the ball during the week to make them hungrier to do something with it on Saturdays.

Danny Blanchflower still spoke of that in the fifties.

It would seem that most clubs didn't bother too much with training in the 1950s apart from a gentle trot round the pitch now and again.

[bob]

I'm prepared to give him until the end of the season.  The minimum requirement is a better places finish than last season otherwise it is failure as far as I am concerned.  I still maintain he is out of his depth at this level.  Can you imagine BFR allowing this carnage.

Considering we managed, I think, 38 points and 9 wins from the last 40 league games BFR was in charge and had 10 points after 14 games and were on a run of 1 point from 9 games when he went I don't think it's too hard to imagine.

He lost his way too many old players together.  But he had respect and discipline about the place and as someone said earlier he took risks. And I can't recall a better brand of football during my time supporting the club.  I'd rather focus on the mostly enjoyable time I had watching that team. 

Discipline?

You're dead wrong there. The reason things turned sour for Big Ron was that he was too lax. These references to Clough/MON not being at training... going from various Villa books BFR was barely at Villa Park or training at all apart from matchdays.

I remember when Little took over one of the things he had to sort out was the lack of professionalism in training, which led to getting rid of the older players like Saunders and Dalian who essentially did fuck all but lark about.

[kippaxvilla2]

I'm prepared to give him until the end of the season.  The minimum requirement is a better places finish than last season otherwise it is failure as far as I am concerned.  I still maintain he is out of his depth at this level.  Can you imagine BFR allowing this carnage.

Considering we managed, I think, 38 points and 9 wins from the last 40 league games BFR was in charge and had 10 points after 14 games and were on a run of 1 point from 9 games when he went I don't think it's too hard to imagine.

He lost his way too many old players together.  But he had respect and discipline about the place and as someone said earlier he took risks. And I can't recall a better brand of football during my time supporting the club.  I'd rather focus on the mostly enjoyable time I had watching that team. 

Discipline?

You're dead wrong there. The reason things turned sour for Big Ron was that he was too lax. These references to Clough/MON not being at training... going from various Villa books BFR was barely at Villa Park or training at all apart from matchdays.

I remember when Little took over one of the things he had to sort out was the lack of professionalism in training, which led to getting rid of the older players like Saunders and Dalian who essentially did fuck all but lark about.

You're right I'm dead wrong BFR was absolutely shit.  So glad we've got a decent team and look forward with unmitigated excitement to watching them every week.

[Monty]

In fairness, plenty of managers start well and end up not so well because they're too relaxed - look at Laudrup recently at Swansea - and BFR certainly had previous for this from his time at Man Utd. And I'm not sure how relevant the team's current shitness is to what BFR did twenty years ago, other than it's less fun now than it was with him.

[bob]

I'm prepared to give him until the end of the season.  The minimum requirement is a better places finish than last season otherwise it is failure as far as I am concerned.  I still maintain he is out of his depth at this level.  Can you imagine BFR allowing this carnage.

Considering we managed, I think, 38 points and 9 wins from the last 40 league games BFR was in charge and had 10 points after 14 games and were on a run of 1 point from 9 games when he went I don't think it's too hard to imagine.

He lost his way too many old players together.  But he had respect and discipline about the place and as someone said earlier he took risks. And I can't recall a better brand of football during my time supporting the club.  I'd rather focus on the mostly enjoyable time I had watching that team. 

Discipline?

You're dead wrong there. The reason things turned sour for Big Ron was that he was too lax. These references to Clough/MON not being at training... going from various Villa books BFR was barely at Villa Park or training at all apart from matchdays.

I remember when Little took over one of the things he had to sort out was the lack of professionalism in training, which led to getting rid of the older players like Saunders and Dalian who essentially did fuck all but lark about.

You're right I'm dead wrong BFR was absolutely shit.  So glad we've got a decent team and look forward with unmitigated excitement to watching them every week.

I said you were dead wrong about Big Ron being disciplined.

[damon loves JT]

Atkinson was a great manager to have when things were going well. Made the players feel ten feet tall. But it was all bullshit, ultimately.

[kippaxvilla2]

I'm prepared to give him until the end of the season.  The minimum requirement is a better places finish than last season otherwise it is failure as far as I am concerned.  I still maintain he is out of his depth at this level.  Can you imagine BFR allowing this carnage.

Considering we managed, I think, 38 points and 9 wins from the last 40 league games BFR was in charge and had 10 points after 14 games and were on a run of 1 point from 9 games when he went I don't think it's too hard to imagine.

He lost his way too many old players together.  But he had respect and discipline about the place and as someone said earlier he took risks. And I can't recall a better brand of football during my time supporting the club.  I'd rather focus on the mostly enjoyable time I had watching that team. 

Discipline?

You're dead wrong there. The reason things turned sour for Big Ron was that he was too lax. These references to Clough/MON not being at training... going from various Villa books BFR was barely at Villa Park or training at all apart from matchdays.

I remember when Little took over one of the things he had to sort out was the lack of professionalism in training, which led to getting rid of the older players like Saunders and Dalian who essentially did fuck all but lark about.

You're right I'm dead wrong BFR was absolutely shit.  So glad we've got a decent team and look forward with unmitigated excitement to watching them every week.

I said you were dead wrong about Big Ron being disciplined.

And I admitted you were right and I was dead wrong.  I've seen the light.

[bob]

I'm prepared to give him until the end of the season.  The minimum requirement is a better places finish than last season otherwise it is failure as far as I am concerned.  I still maintain he is out of his depth at this level.  Can you imagine BFR allowing this carnage.

Considering we managed, I think, 38 points and 9 wins from the last 40 league games BFR was in charge and had 10 points after 14 games and were on a run of 1 point from 9 games when he went I don't think it's too hard to imagine.

He lost his way too many old players together.  But he had respect and discipline about the place and as someone said earlier he took risks. And I can't recall a better brand of football during my time supporting the club.  I'd rather focus on the mostly enjoyable time I had watching that team. 

Discipline?

You're dead wrong there. The reason things turned sour for Big Ron was that he was too lax. These references to Clough/MON not being at training... going from various Villa books BFR was barely at Villa Park or training at all apart from matchdays.

I remember when Little took over one of the things he had to sort out was the lack of professionalism in training, which led to getting rid of the older players like Saunders and Dalian who essentially did fuck all but lark about.

You're right I'm dead wrong BFR was absolutely shit.  So glad we've got a decent team and look forward with unmitigated excitement to watching them every week.

I said you were dead wrong about Big Ron being disciplined.

And I admitted you were right and I was dead wrong.  I've seen the light.

I thought about clarifying that I enjoyed the football that BFR's team played as much as any in my time supporting Villa in my original reply, but thought, no, I sure he can master basic English comprehension.

Turns out I couldn't have been more wrong.

[rob_bridge]

I remember when we were all up in arms that Atkinson spent the summer in the US covering the World Cup with ITV. He said he was watching some of the best players in the world and hinted this would influence our signings.

Then he came back and signed John Fucking Fashanu.

BFR and others of his ilk like El Tel were primarily interested in one thing, money. Wasnt Venables appointment at Leeds delayed because he was doing a TV program in Spain or something? BFR could have been really good but didnt work hard enough. A nearly man at United and Villa. Ferguson in comparison worked his balls off to make a success of Man United and was adaptable to change. The arm around the shoulder management only takes you so far.

MON while not having the money motivation that the likes of Venables had, also ultimately fell short as a manager due to his laziness too imo. Some of the stories you hear about the end of his time at Sunderland and what the likes of Walford were up to on the training ground are comical.

Quite correct - Ferguson and then Wenger took it to a new level in terms of application and detail. Venables and BFR loved their media work and other extra curricular activities.
BFR and Venables both produced teams worth watching but ultimately fell short of what they should have acheived - namely a League Title.

MON is a very poor man's Clough. He thought differently - anyway he has his part time job nowadays.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

From what I've been told, Bryan Robson would more likely be found in the pub during (and after) Albion training sessions.

Edit: I should also point out he managed to get them relegated.