The last time Villa won a premier league game without Vlaar

[Irish villain]

I look at Vlaar and I see a playerwho sums up where we have been the past few years.

He was brought into be Lambert's man, his captain and leader of a group of young men learning their way. He was bought after a relegation struggle and led us to safety through a relegation struggle.  In theory  we should be midtable by this stage of the project but we are slowly being sucked in again because of Vlaar's injuries.

I think we all know that an  Aston Villa that ever roars again will be doing so with somebody other than Vlaar as its most important player. He  did his job, hopefully he can do his job this and next season and he will have earned his corn so to speak. However, ifwe get back to challenging top six, I'd expect Okore and another to be the centre back pairing by that stage.

Anybody else think we should have kept Collins for an additional year or two? Clark needed to be introduced gently, not thrown into the deep end and I fear that has had an effect on him.

[villa_cads]

I hate saying it but I have come around to the idea that, when you weigh us up over the past three years, we probably deserve to go down at some stage.Our fans don't, they have been so patient and supportive.

But the owners, the management(s) and the players have been absolutely shocking. They have all had a hand in our demise. None of them has done their job in a competent fashion.  The board have made horrific appointments (and before that were negligent with the cheque book when MON was manager), have stopped investing at a time when we actually need to speculate to accumulate (austerity won't get you to premier league security) and have produced a litany of statements since MON that comical ali would be proud of ('dynamic football', 'villa expects better' are there more?).

The managers over the past three years (including Houllier)have not been good enough. On Houlier's first day as manager, taking over a top six club with ambitions of Champions League and a proud history, he set a negative tone by saying we belonged '7th-12th'. He then didn't even get started for a few weeks, alienated the dressing room and just set a negative vibe when we needed a steadied ship to help us achieve a respectable position. That negativity, and our flirtation with relegation that year, was really damaging for the club and its morale.

McLeish, need I say anything? Again, not his fault he was appointed. Just asking for trouble. And now Lambert, more goodwill probably than any Villa manager in a long time. A lengthy honeymoon and given the benefit of the doubt several times by a patient Holte End. And, coming into his second season, his back-up to an injury prone Vlaar is a pair that, together, look like a League 1 partnership and a style of football that is, at best, better by adegree than that served up by McLeish.

We are making a habit of bobbling around at the bottom and nobody at the club seems to care. Where are our standards? What is unacceptable for a club like Aston Villa? Unless something changes, we will end up being relegated. Keeping our good players depends on showing ambition as does attracting new, quality players. Omnishambles.

I'm struggling to disagree with the sentiment of this.

[David_Nab]

We are not far removed from Wigan at moment they diced with relegation year after year and brought players from lower leagues and finally caught up with them.If you survive  a scare you make improvements 4 years in a row struggling to stay up in inexcusable.

[cheltenhamlion]

I might as well stick in here as it is difficult to discern which thread moaning about how we are doing at the minute is the most appropriate one.

I was very annoyed on Saturday after that crap but still don't see us getting relegated. I really am getting to the end of my tether with our home form though.

What is it now? 8 defeats in 13 in the league? 10 in 16 if you include the cups? Yet another one where we not only lost but failed to score.

I am not some Arsenal tarquin who is stamping his feet and throwing a wobbler on the floor as "I don't pay to watch us lose" but it is getting bloody wearing now.

Is it really too much to ask that we might score some goals and win some games at home?

I don't want Lambert sacked. I want him to sort it out.

[not3bad]

If Villa are relegated this season then I would point at failing to get cover for Vlaar during the transfer window as possibly the critical moment, the straw that broke the camel's back.  Thing is it's not Vlaar's exceptional defending that makes him a vital player, it's his leadership. It was that leadership that was so vital to Villa's run in last year.

Those 5 minutes after half time were such a fiasco though.

[Ad@m]

They're always niggly injuries with him. His long term injury problem was a serious knee injury, but it seems odd that he keeps having frustrating calf problems.

We haven't been done any favours by having players like Baker, who I do not feel is a top flight player, and Clark who is a 4th choice centre half at best playing the best part of two seasons solid for us.

It's a hamstring this time. If he he misses too many of the remaining games it will not be pretty.

A chappy on VT maintains a spreadsheet of our results with and without the Concrete One, and it is quite astounding:

   

You can do this for any player on Soccerbase

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=154&comp_id=1&teamTabs=results

[adrenachrome]

They're always niggly injuries with him. His long term injury problem was a serious knee injury, but it seems odd that he keeps having frustrating calf problems.

We haven't been done any favours by having players like Baker, who I do not feel is a top flight player, and Clark who is a 4th choice centre half at best playing the best part of two seasons solid for us.

It's a hamstring this time. If he he misses too many of the remaining games it will not be pretty.

A chappy on VT maintains a spreadsheet of our results with and without the Concrete One, and it is quite astounding:

   

You can do this for any player on Soccerbase

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=154&comp_id=1&teamTabs=results

Player Filter - sweet. Thanks.

[Hillbilly]

I might as well stick in here as it is difficult to discern which thread moaning about how we are doing at the minute is the most appropriate one.

I was very annoyed on Saturday after that crap but still don't see us getting relegated. I really am getting to the end of my tether with our home form though.

What is it now? 8 defeats in 13 in the league? 10 in 16 if you include the cups? Yet another one where we not only lost but failed to score.

I am not some Arsenal tarquin who is stamping his feet and throwing a wobbler on the floor as "I don't pay to watch us lose" but it is getting bloody wearing now.

Is it really too much to ask that we might score some goals and win some games at home?

I don't want Lambert sacked. I want him to sort it out.

If we're gonna lose, he might as well send them out to cut loose. At least people could say they saw a entertaining 3-5 game than a dire 0-2.

[PeterWithesShin]

That player filter is fun to look at.

This season including cup matches, matches started only
KEA
With him W7 D5 L8
Without W1 D1 L6

Bacuna
With W7 D6 L8
W/out W1 D0 L6

[Boz]

This is precisely why needed to sign a centreback in the January window. Vlaar is so important to our defence but he can't stay fit! It was total madness to ignore the problem yet Lambert and Lerner did nothing.
Disgraceful.

In fairness lerner made money available as we had a substantial bid for a player turned down , it's not the owners fault if the manager doesn't spend the money he had .

I agree, if Lerner makes money available, there's not much else he can do given his minimal knowledge about football management and trusts Lambert's judgement. It maybe possible however, that Lerner has a placed a limit on what Lambert can spend including wages which amount to handcuffs, but we as fans don't know if this is the case.

[Hillbilly]

That player filter is fun to look at.

This season including cup matches, matches started only
KEA
With him W7 D5 L8
Without W1 D by1 L6

Bacuna
With W7 D6 L8
W/out W1 D0 L6

Check out Sylla. We may not be sure what he brings but it seems to work. Seems consistent with the upturn in fortune this time last year. Hmmm...

[pauliewalnuts]

Check out Bowery last season.

With JB: 75%
Without JB: 29%

[Richard E]

Check out Bowery last season.

With JB: 75%
Without JB: 29%

Which probably just shows that these stats prove nothing - especially as that adds up to 104%!

[pauliewalnuts]

Check out Bowery last season.

With JB: 75%
Without JB: 29%

Which probably just shows that these stats prove nothing - especially as that adds up to 104%!

They don't need to add up to 100%, though! They're percentages of two separate things.

[Richard E]

No, it doesn't does it?