The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[brian green]

That is true ciggies and we all have to put up with it.   I give as good as I take.   You have to be able to take it and dish it out.
What I don't like is seeing all my Villa friends and mates so down and despondent.

[Drummond]

We had a lovely cracking start and that's been followed by defeats to 4 of last year's top five. We should, of course, be aiming to beat them but let's be realistic.

[BoskoDjembaSalifou]

Are we going to re evaluate the Hull game now given they've gone to Liverpool and Arsenal in the last week and drew each game.

Never mind possession, maybe just beating them was a really good result in the end.

As was the Stoke result seeing as they've started to win at home.

Not really. They may have played well vs Liverpool and Arsenal, but it doesn't change the fact they were absolutely awful against us in the first half. We won the game, but really we should've hammered them.

Stoke was a good result as it's usually a difficult place to go even when they're not playing well.

[brian green]

My gut feeling is that the QPR game will be very difficult to win and very easy to lose.   Once it is out of the way we shall get on a more even keel.

[brian green]

Earlier I posted that I think we should have put together a financial package to lure a better manager than Paul Lambert.
I am sleepless in South Cambs so I will expand on that proposition.
There will be those who say quite rightly that a top manager would not want to come without guarantees of spending budgets for players. I would swerve that obstacle by making the manager the primary financial investment and making that clear to him from the outset. I believe a top manager can swing deals that a lesser one can't because the players want to play for him.
I am reminded of the Eric Morcambe sketch in which he wants Andre Previn to teach him to play the piano. Previn asks him what he knows about the piano. Eric replies that all he knows is that the black notes play louder than the white notes. Previn explodes telling him that is rubbish. Eric says he will pay a million pounds to be taught to play the piano. Previn replies "now Mr Morcambe the first thing you need to know is that the black notes play louder than the white notes..."

Randy Lerner is an American billionaire. There is no reason why an American billionaire should not attain success in anything he chooses to be involved in.

[Mister E]

Earlier I posted that I think we should have put together a financial package to lure a better manager than Paul Lambert.
I am sleepless in South Cambs so I will expand on that proposition.
There will be those who say quite rightly that a top manager would not want to come without guarantees of spending budgets for players. I would swerve that obstacle by making the manager the primary financial investment and making that clear to him from the outset. I believe a top manager can swing deals that a lesser one can't because the players want to play for him.
I am reminded of the Eric Morcambe sketch in which he wants Andre Previn to teach him to play the piano. Previn asks him what he knows about the piano. Eric replies that all he knows is that the black notes play louder than the white notes. Previn explodes telling him that is rubbish. Eric says he will pay a million pounds to be taught to play the piano. Previn replies "now Mr Morcambe the first thing you need to know is that the black notes play louder than the white notes..."

Randy Lerner is an American billionaire. There is no reason why an American billionaire should not attain success in anything he chooses to be involved in.

Interesting point, Brian; even if it came at the expense of your night's sleep (hope you've caught up on the shuteye).
It was one to which I was alluding in my earlier post about Bertrand. I've been surprised that Lambert has not got more out of players who are clearly decent footballers.
We now have a squad that is on the cusp of being reasonable: the mix of youth and experience is about right and there's talent in the squad. But can he get what we need from it? He has singularly failed to build on the raw talent of Bennett, Lowton and Clark  ... and it may be harsh saying that, but Clark was highly rated after his first few appearwance; Bennett and Lowton were both regarded as stand-out players in their previous clubs.
Perhaps it is indeed time to bring in a better quality of manager - the question, as ever, is who?

[villa `cross the mersey]

We had a lovely cracking start and that's been followed by defeats to 4 of last year's top five. We should, of course, be aiming to beat them but let's be realistic.

It would help if the manager gave the impression that we are at least looking to give them a game and not surrender the points before the team leaves the dressing room or in Lamberts case, at the pre match interview, the day before - or is it all about damage limitation?

Lets face it teams like Orient, Bradford and Sheffield United shouldn`t be defeating Premier League clubs - but they do ...because they gave it a go.

If realism means that we cant compete against the likes of Man City, Chelsea etc because of their spending power, strength of squad etc then what is the point? Lambert has achieved victories over these teams, not with any  guile but getting the team to believe on the day thyat it is 11 v 11. He just needs to do more of it.

[supertom]

We had a lovely cracking start and that's been followed by defeats to 4 of last year's top five. We should, of course, be aiming to beat them but let's be realistic.

It would help if the manager gave the impression that we are at least looking to give them a game and not surrender the points before the team leaves the dressing room or in Lamberts case, at the pre match interview, the day before - or is it all about damage limitation?

Lets face it teams like Orient, Bradford and Sheffield United shouldn`t be defeating Premier League clubs - but they do ...because they gave it a go.

If realism means that we cant compete against the likes of Man City, Chelsea etc because of their spending power, strength of squad etc then what is the point? Lambert has achieved victories over these teams, not with any  guile but getting the team to believe on the day thyat it is 11 v 11. He just needs to do more of it.

Exactly and Man City look far from unbeatable it must be said. Same goes with Arsenal, though in fairness we did initially take the game to them before we tired and then conceded 3 goals in 5 minutes or whatever it was. I can just about let that pass given the illness. Chelsea are the side who look a different class this season. They're quality in every department. So our performance and the scoreline wasn't much of a surprise.

The likes of City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton have all looked ropey at the back.
We did it right against Liverpool. We could actually have beaten them by more. Against Everton we were completely pathetic. It was small time to lose in that manner to a side like them. A side who won't finish top 5 this season.

We're paying certain sides far too much respect and playing with too much fear. The trouble is, once you play four games in a row in fear, it's hard to shake that off, even against a punch of plodding no-hopers like QPR, so I hope we get really fired up for the game and come out at pace.

[Gregorys Boy]

We had a lovely cracking start and that's been followed by defeats to 4 of last year's top five. We should, of course, be aiming to beat them but let's be realistic.

This.  I don't think there should be much activity in this thread until after the next four or so games.  Its only then when we get an idea of if we have made any real progress this year.  If we can win the games we should be winning (QPR, Burnley, The Foxes etc.), and pick up the odd decent recent against the likes of West Ham, Swansea, maybe Everton then I think we should be fine.

[Villa in Denmark]

We had a lovely cracking start and that's been followed by defeats to 4 of last year's top five. We should, of course, be aiming to beat them but let's be realistic.

This.  I don't think there should be much activity in this thread until after the next four or so games.  Its only then when we get an idea of if we have made any real progress this year.  If we can win the games we should be winning (QPR, Burnley, The Foxes etc.), and pick up the odd decent recent against the likes of West Ham, Swansea, maybe Everton then I think we should be fine.

And that right there is the embodiment of how far the ambition level has fallen and how willingly sub-mediocrity has been accepted.

Pick up the odd decent result against teams that are on the whole nothing more than half decent?

None of those teams offers much more than technical competency, in the context of the PL, a solid game plan and players that believe in that plan and their rolls in it.

Nothing we couldn't achieve with our current squad.  However the coaching appears to be non-existent most of the time and any game plan little more than kick and rush.

What makes it all the more dispiriting is that on occasions we put in a performance that shows that the players are more than capable.

[supertom]

We had a lovely cracking start and that's been followed by defeats to 4 of last year's top five. We should, of course, be aiming to beat them but let's be realistic.

This.  I don't think there should be much activity in this thread until after the next four or so games.  Its only then when we get an idea of if we have made any real progress this year.  If we can win the games we should be winning (QPR, Burnley, The Foxes etc.), and pick up the odd decent recent against the likes of West Ham, Swansea, maybe Everton then I think we should be fine.

And that right there is the embodiment of how far the ambition level has fallen and how willingly sub-mediocrity has been accepted.

Pick up the odd decent result against teams that are on the whole nothing more than half decent?

None of those teams offers much more than technical competency, in the context of the PL, a solid game plan and players that believe in that plan and their rolls in it.

Nothing we couldn't achieve with our current squad.  However the coaching appears to be non-existent most of the time and any game plan little more than kick and rush.

What makes it all the more dispiriting is that on occasions we put in a performance that shows that the players are more than capable.

I would agree with that. It's not the standard of player we have that's our biggest problem. If you look at a lot of the squads on paper, we've a good spine. We're as good as anyone below the big 6-7 clubs. I don't think in terms of ability we're miles away from Everton. Southampton have been brilliant but they don't have players a whole level beyond us. Steven Davis is still a regular for them. He's a solid player, better than the one we let go for peanuts. He's essentially a one time Villa reject. Granted times for him and us have changed.

Just looking at West Ham. I wouldn't take anyone of their backline or keeper over our best in the respective positions. In midfield I'd take Song. But you compare Amalfitano, Downing, Noble with say Westwood, TC and Zogbia and it's much of a muchness. I wouldn't trade any of them for Delph. I'd take their front two over Gabby and Weimann, but as yet neither over Benteke. I'd say at best our squad is a shade over theirs yet they look a better team, because their manager is better at organising them. In addition he's added a little more style this season. There's been a forward progression at a club who've been a yo-yo club in the last 10-15 years. But they look solid now. Even so, he's nowt more than a mid-table manager. That's still a cut above Lambert.

We've got enough quality that we should be giving as good as we get in most games this season and at least giving a decent account of ourselves in bigger games. We should really be comfortably mid-table, but signs point towards more struggle because persistent issues are still unaddressed.

[Ads]

I seem to notice that our away support has not lowered, strange that.

Not sure I agree with this. The club seem to take a lower initial allocation these days and don't always ask for more tickets if they sell out. Never used to get many away games going on general sale, but that is the current state of play with the West Ham game and the Burnley fixture is heading the same way.

First time we sold the full allocation at Everton since 2011. Three years on the spin we have taken the full allocation at West Ham compared to the initial allocations taken in all previous seasons bar Mellberg's last game.

The away support has held up very well.

[TheMalandro]

I seem to notice that our away support has not lowered, strange that.

Amazing really, real hardcore fans! Poor bastards.
I'm not taking the piss either.


Not sure I agree with this. The club seem to take a lower initial allocation these days and don't always ask for more tickets if they sell out. Never used to get many away games going on general sale, but that is the current state of play with the West Ham game and the Burnley fixture is heading the same way.

First time we sold the full allocation at Everton since 2011. Three years on the spin we have taken the full allocation at West Ham compared to the initial allocations taken in all previous seasons bar Mellberg's last game.

The away support has held up very well.

[ez]

We had a lovely cracking start and that's been followed by defeats to 4 of last year's top five. We should, of course, be aiming to beat them but let's be realistic.

It would help if the manager gave the impression that we are at least looking to give them a game and not surrender the points before the team leaves the dressing room or in Lamberts case, at the pre match interview, the day before - or is it all about damage limitation?

Lets face it teams like Orient, Bradford and Sheffield United shouldn`t be defeating Premier League clubs - but they do ...because they gave it a go.

If realism means that we cant compete against the likes of Man City, Chelsea etc because of their spending power, strength of squad etc then what is the point? Lambert has achieved victories over these teams, not with any  guile but getting the team to believe on the day thyat it is 11 v 11. He just needs to do more of it.

Exactly and Man City look far from unbeatable it must be said. Same goes with Arsenal, though in fairness we did initially take the game to them before we tired and then conceded 3 goals in 5 minutes or whatever it was. I can just about let that pass given the illness. Chelsea are the side who look a different class this season. They're quality in every department. So our performance and the scoreline wasn't much of a surprise.

The likes of City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton have all looked ropey at the back.
We did it right against Liverpool. We could actually have beaten them by more. Against Everton we were completely pathetic. It was small time to lose in that manner to a side like them. A side who won't finish top 5 this season.

We're paying certain sides far too much respect and playing with too much fear. The trouble is, once you play four games in a row in fear, it's hard to shake that off, even against a punch of plodding no-hopers like QPR, so I hope we get really fired up for the game and come out at pace.

Agree about Man City being beatable. I think their only clean sheet was against us.

[Gareth]

The Allardyce comparison is interesting, I'd have said he was dead man walking after the parasite pornographers ultimatum but they have seemed to try to entertain, sure he'll revert to type once Carroll is fit.

Personally I think Lambert has had way more time & chance than is healthy, for several seasons I've had the impression that losing doesn't hurt enough within the playing staff & seeing Lambert get rewarded for mediocrity with 4yrs sets totally the wrong example.

If the board ever do see past the ends of their noses and sack him we'll have a CEO with even less experience of hiring football mgrs than Faulkner

All I want for Christmas is a goal!!!