Pressed-back

[PaulWinch again]

I don't particularly like 3 CBs, but it's not necessarily defensive - look at Anfield last year.  No, to me it's more or a mentality thing and at 0-1 up we didn't have any conviction to go at them, which had nothing to do with the formation.

I agree on the three centre backs. When Brian Little played it, it was exciting  because we had proper wingbacks. Under John Gregory it meant five defenders.

I also think it's massively important who those centre backs are, with Baker and Clark it simply isn't good enough.

[Concrete John]

A big problem is not having three in centre midfield as well. Lambert wants two up front with Weimann or Gabby or someone in behind, and it just leaves us with this enormous shortfall in the middle. There's also a lack of cover by only having the two in midfield, meaning the defence has to drop deep and basically do last ditch - hardly conducive for keeping the ball.

You could say the same when we play the 4-3-3 that we want a number 10 for.  It's all about that player's ability to track back while still adding an attacking threat.  We're two poor in the midfield to play two there, regardless of what the rest of the formation may look like.

[JUAN PABLO]

spot on

No defender signed , no playmaker  and a way PL set up against Everton had me scratching my head and I dont by this fitness bollocks .

Liverpool are better than Everton and we went and had a go at Anfield but to go to Everton Mcleish style was awful , I just about get on his side again and then he reminds me why I dont want him here.

He does himself no favours at all . 

[Monty]

A big problem is not having three in centre midfield as well. Lambert wants two up front with Weimann or Gabby or someone in behind, and it just leaves us with this enormous shortfall in the middle. There's also a lack of cover by only having the two in midfield, meaning the defence has to drop deep and basically do last ditch - hardly conducive for keeping the ball.

You could say the same when we play the 4-3-3 that we want a number 10 for.  It's all about that player's ability to track back while still adding an attacking threat.  We're two poor in the midfield to play two there, regardless of what the rest of the formation may look like.

Agreed. Part of the problem with playing Weimann as the number ten (despite the convenient fact that he is the 'number ten' in the squad) is that he is by nature and training a forward and doesn't think like a midfielder. We need an attacking midfielder rather than a second striker in there, because the instinct for them is to track back, help out and give options on the ball to the deeper midfield players.

[saunders_heroes]

spot on

No defender signed , no playmaker  and a way PL set up against Everton had me scratching my head and I dont by this fitness bollocks .

Liverpool are better than Everton and we went and had a go at Anfield but to go to Everton Mcleish style was awful , I just about get on his side again and then he reminds me why I dont want him here.

He does himself no favours at all . 

I think if Agbonlahor was fit we may have seen the Villa team go for it a bit more. He really is that important to the club.

[Concrete John]

As soon as they see Gabby's name on the team sheet, whoever we're playing, other than the true top clubs, will worry about his pace on the break and automatically sit a bit deeper, especially when we're away from home.

[frank]

Everton and Villa share much history but they’re well ahead at the moment – testament to what stability and the right sort of investment at the right time can bring.

All too true, sadly.

[Irish villain]

Good, sobering article Dave. I think  we can measure the club's trajectory by the mood on H&V. And, truth be told, none of us have been in good form this year. There was disbelief in the McLeish year, gallows humour at times last season and this one had been marked by a certain exasperation and, on my part, anger that we can still be turned over at home by the Crystal Palaces of this league and aren't looking more comfortable than five points clear of the drop zone.

On the formation question, I had a chuckle to myself reading about how great 3-5-2 worked under Gregory and Little because it reminded me so much of Brian Clough. What is more important? The formation or the quality of the eleven men on the pitch? I am quite sure a team with McGrath, Ehiogu and Southgate at the back with Taylor, Townsend and Draper in front would be higher up the league than our current side regardless of what formation you put them in. We just lack a couple of quality players,that's why we don't grind out enough results and seldom look comfortable even when we win.

[David_Nab]

What annoys me is that Lambert seems to think he can play 2 big strikers, he did it with Kozak and Benteke and then again with Holt and Benteke and both times be a complete waste of time.

As for 3 CB's it's no help when all the do is hit it long (as did Guzan all game ) even if the strikers knocked it down there was only 2 men in midfield against Everton's 5 so we lost possession.The real kicker is we had 3 CB's and yet a quick one 2 was good enough to have none of them near the player running through to score.

[darren woolley]

Good article Dave.

[Dave Clark Five]

Good article Dave.

Agreed.

[Monty]

On the formation question, I had a chuckle to myself reading about how great 3-5-2 worked under Gregory and Little because it reminded me so much of Brian Clough. What is more important? The formation or the quality of the eleven men on the pitch? I am quite sure a team with McGrath, Ehiogu and Southgate at the back with Taylor, Townsend and Draper in front would be higher up the league than our current side regardless of what formation you put them in. We just lack a couple of quality players,that's why we don't grind out enough results and seldom look comfortable even when we win.

Formations aren't everything, but for an example of how important they can be have a look at the first half against Liverpool. They have much better players than we do, but their formation was dumb as nuts and we destroyed them for a half.

[frank]

Formations aren't everything, but for an example of how important they can be have a look at the first half against Liverpool. They have much better players than we do, but their formation was dumb as nuts and we destroyed them for a half.

That's an interesting comparison. All managers can make tactical errors. At Anfield Rodgers got it wrong and Lambert got it right. At Goodison Lambert got it wrong and Martinez, with his substitutions, got it right.

[Monty]

Formations aren't everything, but for an example of how important they can be have a look at the first half against Liverpool. They have much better players than we do, but their formation was dumb as nuts and we destroyed them for a half.

That's an interesting comparison. All managers can make tactical errors. At Anfield Rodgers got it wrong and Lambert got it right. At Goodison Lambert got it wrong and Martinez, with his substitutions, got it right.

Indeed, they do. You can't really learn a lot about a manager from formations. There are other more important giveaways - lumping it forward from every free kick we get anywhere on the pitch, for instance.

[Legion]

Good article Dave.

Agreed.

Same here.