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Author Topic: The Myth of our youth policy  (Read 22287 times)

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #120 on: January 20, 2014, 09:13:02 PM »
The problem with having a youth focused approach at an English club is that English kids are just nowhere near as good as German or spanish. Villa can do something about that but it requires a concerted effort

Offline paul_e

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #121 on: January 20, 2014, 09:50:10 PM »
The problem with having a youth focused approach at an English club is that English kids are just nowhere near as good as German or spanish. Villa can do something about that but it requires a concerted effort

That's just not true.  Genetics are important but the gene pool isn't anything like 'pure' enough for some countries to have a huge genetic advantage, if you could measure it I'm sure you'd find that the percentage of kids with the aptitude to be professional footballers at the age of 8-9 is pretty standard across europe.  There are 2 major problems for the home nations:

1. There are a lot of alternatives to football.  I'd bet that a number of people in other sports have everything they need to football players at the highest level but it's not the path they've chosen.  This is the same reason why America struggles.

2. Our coaching and scouting are poor.  The ratio of scouts and qualified coaches to players in British football is abysmal compared to the top nations in europe, with each coach being responsible for 5 or 6 times as many players as in other countries, just like any form of teaching smaller groups are much more likely to succeed, if the standard of teaching/coaching is suitable.

Sticking with La Masia, they have around 300 players and 24 coaches with every coach fully qualified or working towards that with every age group focused on core requirements to ensure that when they get to Barcelona B and the first team they're ready to be there, look how many of the kids come into their side and look like they belong there, it's because they do, they've trained since they were 8 or 9 years old to play for the Barcelona first team.  The vast majority who drop out after 12 go on to be professional footballers because even if they weren't good enough for Barcelona they have the basic technical skills to be picked up by someone else pretty quickly.

Online Dante Lavelli

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #122 on: January 20, 2014, 10:17:43 PM »
The problem with having a youth focused approach at an English club is that English kids are just nowhere near as good as German or spanish. Villa can do something about that but it requires a concerted effort

The wisdom at the moment (see the recent Martinez interview) is that we do okay up to the late teens, but fail in the early twenties.  Martinez blames the fact that the youngsters do not play enough (need feeder clubs). 

Offline OCD

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #123 on: January 20, 2014, 10:28:09 PM »
The problem with having a youth focused approach at an English club is that English kids are just nowhere near as good as German or spanish. Villa can do something about that but it requires a concerted effort

The wisdom at the moment (see the recent Martinez interview) is that we do okay up to the late teens, but fail in the early twenties.  Martinez blames the fact that the youngsters do not play enough (need feeder clubs). 

I'm not sure about being similar in their late teens but the drop-off is certainly evident. As Paul says, the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid have B teams but I would also imagine that the lack of finance that other Spanish clubs have means they have to bring young players straight through to the first team. The success of the Premier League actually works against us in this regard because it results in bringing over foreign players who are ready to go into the first team.

If we could ever be in a position of having 300+ kids on the books at any one time, the appropriate number of youth coaches, the facilities for these numbers and the right quality of coaching and scouting, it would be fantastic for club.

Offline Rudy65

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #124 on: January 20, 2014, 10:49:52 PM »
The problem with having a youth focused approach at an English club is that English kids are just nowhere near as good as German or spanish. Villa can do something about that but it requires a concerted effort

That's just not true.  Genetics are important but the gene pool isn't anything like 'pure' enough for some countries to have a huge genetic advantage, if you could measure it I'm sure you'd find that the percentage of kids with the aptitude to be professional footballers at the age of 8-9 is pretty standard across europe.  There are 2 major problems for the home nations:

1. There are a lot of alternatives to football.  I'd bet that a number of people in other sports have everything they need to football players at the highest level but it's not the path they've chosen.  This is the same reason why America struggles.

2. Our coaching and scouting are poor.  The ratio of scouts and qualified coaches to players in British football is abysmal compared to the top nations in europe, with each coach being responsible for 5 or 6 times as many players as in other countries, just like any form of teaching smaller groups are much more likely to succeed, if the standard of teaching/coaching is suitable.

Sticking with La Masia, they have around 300 players and 24 coaches with every coach fully qualified or working towards that with every age group focused on core requirements to ensure that when they get to Barcelona B and the first team they're ready to be there, look how many of the kids come into their side and look like they belong there, it's because they do, they've trained since they were 8 or 9 years old to play for the Barcelona first team.  The vast majority who drop out after 12 go on to be professional footballers because even if they weren't good enough for Barcelona they have the basic technical skills to be picked up by someone else pretty quickly.

Too true. Plus it is still win at all costs in this country at junior level and play the big n because he has the physical strength. Ive seen it with my own kids as their coach says boot it away when they have time to control and pass. Parents dont help either, wanting instant success and little Johnny to do well over the team.

We also play 11 a side on full size pitches way too soon. Should be banned until they are 14

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #125 on: January 21, 2014, 07:05:00 AM »
Um, I certainly didn't say anything about genes!!

But our kids aren't as good. I've seen them play.

That's why I said it needs a concerted effort as Germany did after euro 2000. I'm not sure we've got the will, patience or structure to mirror that.

Offline paul_e

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #126 on: January 21, 2014, 08:47:28 AM »
Um, I certainly didn't say anything about genes!!

But our kids aren't as good. I've seen them play.

That's why I said it needs a concerted effort as Germany did after euro 2000. I'm not sure we've got the will, patience or structure to mirror that.

Our kids aren't as good because no has that style structure in place, us, west ham, southampton and 1 or 2 others have an attempt at this kind of structure but for most of the premier league the 'youth development' side of th eclub involves stealing the best of the 15-16 year olds from as many other clubs as thy can, often abroad where the coaching at earlier ages has been appropriate.

Offline pig

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #127 on: January 21, 2014, 11:24:47 AM »
I sometimes think that the problem with our youth set up is around winning.

We are great winning at youth level, but is the focus too much on winning rather than the technical aspect of actually playing the game?

Online Dante Lavelli

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Re: The Myth of our youth policy
« Reply #128 on: January 21, 2014, 11:40:46 AM »
I sometimes think that the problem with our youth set up is around winning.

We are great winning at youth level, but is the focus too much on winning rather than the technical aspect of actually playing the game?

In the past that was certainly true but there has been a bit of a shift of focus in the past ten years or so.  Wenger certain seems to think that there is no difference technically between his British youth players and the rest signed from abroad.  These technically adept players are probably only just starting to reach adulthood so possibly too early to say whether the shift has worked.

Martinez uses the fact we win things (13-21yrs) as evidence that our system works up to the early twenties and fails after that.  We have reserve and youth football whereas on the continent there are feeder clubs and B teams which are set up to mirror the tactics of the team at the top of the pyramid (Castillo = Madrid, Barca B = Barca etc).

 


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