Standard of player

[barrysleftfoot]

 I'm 50 now, i've been going down VP for at least 40 years, starting when we was in the 3rd division, i've seen some dross in my time, but yday i think was the worst i have felt coming away from a game.At least under previous poor leadership you had liitle bits of optimism, like young lads coming through, or players you knew would be better under a better manager, but yday, nothing.

 Theres not one Villa player at the moment i actually think i enjoy watching, the tactics are non-existant, the quality of the majority of his signings are at best "work in progress", but what worries me, is looking at the teams around us, and i include Sland in that, how many of our current team would get in our direct opponents teams?

 How many Villa players would Swansea/Albion/West Ham want.I'd say 2 or 3 at most.Thats what this manager has done, thats why i hope he is dispensed with sooner rather than later.

[eastie]

Hard to disagree with any of that blf.

[supertom]

It's the worst squad of players we've had during my time, 23 years or so. If we continue buying like we are, we'll only be heading one way.

[PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt]

Buying players with potential was always going to be a risky strategy. Thing is, Lambert is achieving his target set by Lerner. Reduce the wage bill, bring in cheaper players, hopefully we can sell some on for a profit, and keep us in the division. Randy has no intention of splashing out, and even if he does what would we achieve? 7th place, a Uefa Cup spot where we end up playing our reserves in Uzbekistan on a Thursday night?
As much as Lambert is struggling in our eyes, in Randy's he's seen as doing what is asked of him.

[VillaAlways]

I just can't see Lambert buying any experienced players in the window because that would be admitting that he was wrong with his "young and hungry" model. It's just not going to happen, like last year he will just rely on blind faith, however the difference is that the players were performing last season, aren't this season. We're in the shit for sure unless Randy pulls the trigger fast and gives the new manager substantial funds to improve us

[Villafirst]

Agree, what ever Lambert says about "a work in progress" the simple fact is that the players are just not PL standard apart from Okore and Benteke. He wasted the summer budget on cheap foreign imports which haven't worked. It's time to abandon this high risk strategy and buy some experienced quality players, but Lerner seems content with trying to do it on the cheap. It also needs an experienced board member with some football nous because these Americans and Faulkner haven't got a clue.

[olaftab]

There are about four other threads discussing ths sort of stuff. Do we really need another?

[eastie]

Buying players with potential was always going to be a risky strategy. Thing is, Lambert is achieving his target set by Lerner. Reduce the wage bill, bring in cheaper players, hopefully we can sell some on for a profit, and keep us in the division. Randy has no intention of splashing out, and even if he does what would we achieve? 7th place, a Uefa Cup spot where we end up playing our reserves in Uzbekistan on a Thursday night?
As much as Lambert is struggling in our eyes, in Randy's he's seen as doing what is asked of him.

Sadly this is true in many ways , the gap at the top is huge regarding champions league places - the Europa cup is a hindrance to many as it's far too many games - last season we  finished 14th i think ?

I can see why randy would probably not spend £30m on players to achieve what - 8th place?
An outlay of £30m to get maybe £4m extra in league prize money would not be worthwhile - the problem is though we are not that good that we can expect to survive without  major additions - I can see him being content with midtable finishes but believe me at this moment without new decent signings this side is not too good to go down.

[PaulWinch again]

The inability to pass the football is staggering. It's absolutely awful.

[martin o`who??]

Piss poor.

[Dave Clark Five]

The inability to pass the football is staggering. It's absolutely awful.

Also ball control, positioning when taking or defending corners (such as how many men to leave back), keeping a ball down when shooting etc.
These are all basic skills that are drummed into kids at school.

[nick harper]

Buying players with potential was always going to be a risky strategy. Thing is, Lambert is achieving his target set by Lerner. Reduce the wage bill, bring in cheaper players, hopefully we can sell some on for a profit, and keep us in the division. Randy has no intention of splashing out, and even if he does what would we achieve? 7th place, a Uefa Cup spot where we end up playing our reserves in Uzbekistan on a Thursday night?
As much as Lambert is struggling in our eyes, in Randy's he's seen as doing what is asked of him.

The only thing Lerner seems to have requested is to get our wages to earnings ratio back to something that is sustainable  and keeps the club financially stable - not unreasonable. Lambert has decided to trawl lower leagues and cheap foreign imports to build his squad.

I don't believe Lerner has told him not to buy experience where  it may be required. We all agree a reasonable balance between that and young players with potential  would be the best approach. I just don't understand why Lambert has spent the sums he has and left  us with such a fragile group of players. Really poor management in my opinion but not Lerner's fault.

[CAitken]

 I'm 50 now, i've been going down VP for at least 40 years, starting when we was in the 3rd division, i've seen some dross in my time, but yday i think was the worst i have felt coming away from a game.At least under previous poor leadership you had liitle bits of optimism, like young lads coming through, or players you knew would be better under a better manager, but yday, nothing.

 Theres not one Villa player at the moment i actually think i enjoy watching, the tactics are non-existant, the quality of the majority of his signings are at best "work in progress", but what worries me, is looking at the teams around us, and i include Sland in that, how many of our current team would get in our direct opponents teams?

 How many Villa players would Swansea/Albion/West Ham want.I'd say 2 or 3 at most.Thats what this manager has done, thats why i hope he is dispensed with sooner rather than later.

This is the squad that got us relegated in 1987. They played 4 more games and only amassed 36 points. They managed only 1 away win all season at Coventry. There are similarities of young players under 23 and a couple of aging/past it players. This team gave me many more depressing  days than the current team or yesterday's performance have.
First Division table 1986/87 (42 games)
18. Oxford United 46 (pts)
19. Charlton Athletic 44*
---------------------------------
20. Leicester City 42
21. Manchester City 39
22. Aston Villa 36
*Charlton avoided relegation after defeating Second Division side Leeds in the play-off final.
The Villa squad from 1986/87
GOALKEEPERS
Nigel Spink (age at time: 28)
A survivor from the European Cup-winning squad, Spink played 38 games during the campaign and would spend 19 years at the club before leaving in 1996 after losing his place to Mark Bosnich.
Kevin Poole (23)
Graduate from the academy but was always second choice to Spink and left at the end of the season. Today, Poole is still on the playing staff at Burton Albion.

DEFENDERS
Martin Keown (20)
Joined from Arsenal at the start of the campaign and remained a regular at Villa Park before departing for Everton in 1989. Later rejoined the Gunners where he twice won the Double.
Tony Dorigo (20)
Left for Chelsea at the end of the season having played 48 games over the campaign. Later went on to be capped 15 times by England before winning the top flight title with Leeds in 1992.
Paul Elliott (22)
Another young defender who would depart at the end of the season. Elliott played 37 games before leaving for Italy and Pisa. Forced to retire while at Chelsea in 1994 following a serious knee injury sustained two years earlier.
Allan Evans (29)
The Scot spent 12 years at Villa Park scoring 51 goals in 380 league appearances before leaving in 1989 after helping the club re-establish in the top flight.
Gary Williams (26)
Another member of the European Cup-winning team. After featuring 26 times over the year, Williams left the club at the end of the season for Leeds United after nine years at Villa Park.
Dave Norton (21)
Spent five years at Villa but was more often used as a utility player before leaving for Notts County in 1988 after featuring just twice in the promotion campaign.

MIDFIELDERS
Steve Hunt (30)
Started his career at Villa in 1973 but featured very little before leaving four years later. Returned again in 1986 and became a regular over the next two seasons before retiring.
Steve Hodge (23)
An England international but spent just a little over a year at the club before a loss of form saw him jump the sinking Villa ship early in the season and move to title challengers Tottenham.

Tony Daley (18)
After joining as an apprentice in 1985, the pacey winger spent nine years at Villa playing 290 games and scoring 38 goals. Featured seven times under Graham Taylor for England between 1991 and 1992.
Mark Walters (22)
The winger started his career at Villa Park and spent six years at the club before leaving following relegation after injury restricted him to just 26 appearances. Later enjoyed spells at Rangers and Liverpool.
Paul Birch (23)
Another youth product who became a fans’ favourite in his 11 years at the club before leaving for Wolves in 1991. Sadly passed away in 2009 following a battle with cancer.
Neale Cooper (23)
Signed at the start of the season but only played 15 times during the campaign due to injury. Moved to Rangers following just two years in the West Midlands.

Simon Stainrod (27)
Never hit the same heights as his debut when he scored four goals in a League Cup win at Exeter. Top scorer with eight goals, Stainrod left for Stoke at the end of the season after three years at Villa Park.
Garry Thompson (26)
Often partnering Stainrod in attack, Thompson netted seven times in his first season at the club before departing for Watford following promotion back to the top flight in 1988.
Andy Gray (30)
Back for a second stint at Villa but never matched his 1970s highs as just five league goals in two years saw him depart once again at the start of the following season.
Warren Aspinall (18)
Signed during the second half of the campaign from Everton for £300,000, Aspinall netted three goals in 12 games but left the club after just one full season in 1988.
 

[Toronto Villa]

I have no idea how anyone can say that the current side is worse than that lot above. You can say ours has played really poorly at times, has less experience, is more naive in certain circumstances etc etc. But look at that lot above. Players with experience, a European Cup medal, World Cup appearances, international caps. That lot thrilled us to bottom spot and embarrassed the club to a magic 36 points. Yes there are issues with the squad today, and they need to be fixed, but to suggest this is the worst anyone has ever seen is mind blowing. The current set of players are going through what amounts to a crisis in confidence and it is affecting their ability to do a lot of the things they were doing well at the end of last season. We've also lost one of the most feared forwards in Europe to 2 injuries and most recently our captain. Lambert has made mistakes and needs to learn from them, so like I said we have problems that can be resolved and need to be. But the above lot. They disgraced the club with they did that season.

I would put bet any money that if Sir Graham joined Villa tomorrow he would not describe the club as a shambles.

[Dribbler]

 Theres not one Villa player at the moment i actually think i enjoy watching, the tactics are non-existant, the quality of the majority of his signings are at best "work in progress", but what worries me, is looking at the teams around us, and i include Sland in that, how many of our current team would get in our direct opponents teams?

How many Villa players would Swansea/Albion/West Ham want. I'd say 2 or 3 at most. Thats what this manager has done, thats why i hope he is dispensed with sooner rather than later.

I think much of this depends on how well we are playing. I'm not sure if you are saying in your last paragraph that what Lambert has done is buy poor players, or that he's not realised the potential of those players, or possibly both?

Last season we had various supporters asking at times when the likes of Delph, Westwood and Lowton would be getting in the England squad. This season we have various supporters saying that the same players are not even good enough for the premiership. I'm not saying it's the same people necessarily saying these conflicting things, but it's an indication of how our perceptions of players can change dependent on how the team is doing and playing as a whole.

I would say then it comes down to management and coaching. If you're going to buy the kind of players we have (not the finished article) then you obviously have to develop them. To me however this season it looks like a lot of them are regressing not progressing. In part i think much of this must be down to coaching and tactics this season.

I also think that Lambert has done his younger players a great disservice in their potential development by not giving them the necessary quality experienced heads to play alongside and learn from. It makes a massive difference to a developing player if he can look across and see someone of respected quality and experience on the pitch next to them, to marshal them, guide them and talk to them, to provide that little bit of nous or discipline which can make all the difference at the key moments in a game, and therefore potentially win or lose a game.

There is a reason many a 'good' manager talks about the importance of blooding young players slowly and in the right environment, and that is so that those players can develop in the right way and at the right speed, without too much expectation or pressure on their heads, which otherwise might destroy their confidence and so their future.

Lambert's philosophy seems to be throw them all in at the deep end and see which ones sink and which ones swim. Unfortunately this method will probably sink a lot of players that could potentially make it if they were given the right support. This might possibly work in the lower leagues, but not in the premier league which as an exacting and unforgiving league.

Ultimately then i don't think we have enough quality experienced players in the team, so we don't have the right balance.

Off the top of my head Guzan and Benteke would be the only players other teams would really want. I think a lot of the other players would potentially be wanted by other teams as squad fillers, or might even fit in teams that are more balanced and could surround them with the right players to support or develop them. There are a lot of players that we have got rid of as not being good enough over the years, but now play fairly solid roles for other clubs as they are in the right team or context.

So yes, i think Lambert has to shoulder the blame, we have some potentially good players but they've not been given the support required to develop from Lambert, i also don't believe for a moment that they've shown a lack of effort, they just genuinely sometimes look confused and lost as to what to do, and again that's Lambert's fault.