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Author Topic: Rainbow Laces  (Read 12760 times)

Offline Louzie0

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2013, 06:59:35 PM »
Here in London (I'm not sure about other parts of the country) it is quite common for the word gay to be used in that way. Mainly amongst younger people I should add. Which goes back to my point about understanding the intention when such words are used.

I'm in London as well. Sorry. Still outdated.

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2013, 07:12:52 PM »
I'm glad we now have progressed enough to have this debate. It was only a couple of years ago that people were justifying the chants against Matthew Upson as just a bit of banter.

Online amfy

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2013, 07:17:57 PM »
The idea of working on sexism in football is an odd one.

I think the reason I don't get offended is because when I first started going to football there weren't that many women there. It's like I was a guest in a male environment so it didn't seem right for me to decide there were ways people couldn't speak, or songs they couldn't sing around me.

Strangely, men have often apologised for swearing around me at football, but thought nothing of launching into a chorus of 'Get your tits out for the lads!'.

The whole thing is full of contradictions.

However, the truth is that there are lots of gay fans at football who don't find some of the chants and language amusing or inoffensive, and Dtonewall have said today that they are in touch with several Premiership footballers who cannot come out for fear of the abuse they will get.

In 2013 should we really be leaving gay people to live the best years of their life as a lie?

Offline Louzie0

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2013, 07:27:19 PM »
The obvious answer is, No.

Bollox to the rest, quite frankly. I have accessed wiki on Anglo Saxon profanity and find this expletive refreshingly acceptable to express whatever. So, Bollux!!!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 07:40:21 PM by Louzie0 »

Offline supertom

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2013, 07:39:45 PM »
Agree with most of that supertom. Other, then some chants from away fans at Brighton, is there really anything else truely homophobic in the English game? The barometer I guess will be (if ever) when a player openly comes out.
I mean to some extent you'll always get a few fans in the stands calling players "poofs" or whatever, but it's not that common. And honestly, as footy fans, when we're pissed off we can use far more colourful language that that.
Obviously though, if you cant take a bit of risque, potentially offensive language then you've got no place being at a football ground, because I don't care where you are, you'll hear something. Obviously there are certain things truly unacceptable, like racist chants but that's thankfully a rarity in the English game now.

I know two gay guys and seriously, you couldn't pay them a million quid to watch a football match, even if Beckham played the entire match in nothing but his budgie smugglers. They'd rather go shopping. That said...if we play like we did against Newcastle again, I might have to join them!


I totally disagree, and that's the sort of approach that used to get taken to racism as well "it's just people letting off steam".

And there is a difference between "offensive" language along the lines of people effing and blinding and people chanting about how Upson "takes it up the arse". I can't see how anyone can fail to spot the difference there, but that's precisely what you're doing if you're just filing it under offensive language.

Your story about the two gay guys you know is of no real relevance. I know plenty of gay people, and some of them like football. The fact you know some who don't like it at all means absolutely nothing.

It's right up there with "what's the point with trying to get Asian fans to attend games, they all like cricket anyway, they hate football".

But my point is the problem of homophobia in football is not nearly at the same level as racism once was. In all honesty I think we've all got bigger things to worry about.
I'm I'd still stand by the fact that the majority of gay men probably don't have that much interest in football. I'm not suggesting there aren't any gay gentleman interested in the footy.

As for the interest of Asian people in football, again, it's a cultural thing and I know there's still probably an innert racism that's effecting young Asian players being able to make it through the youth levels, into pro football in this country, which is a shame, but they're predominently more interested in cricket. Again, I can only use my personal experience. I've known and worked with a lot of asian lads over the years and I'd say well under half couldn't be arsed with football, and almost all of them loved cricket. A couple of my Asian mates are huge footy fans though and there's a good multi-cultural turn out in the stands at many clubs.

Homophobia is an issue. I'm not sure wearing a wrist band will make much difference. I'm sure there'll be some rage directed at some clubs/players who refuse to take part for whatever reason.

If you look at the whole history of football and figure it's took from the 1890's to get to the point in the early 90's where, on the whole foreign players/black players were welcomed and accepted at their clubs by the fans, that's quite a while. Football will never be without degrees of racism but we're one of the most accepting countries in the world. I don't think though we'll never get to this point where suddenly, hundreds of players will come out. I mean it's very traditionally a very working class game, gruff, stereotypically manly men (okay maybe not some of these pampered poster boy footballers these days). I think there's still an strong element of homophobia in the working class. In the same way footballers wouldn't want to come out, you'll have hard working gents down the building sites or whatever not wanting to come out. It's just a part of society that still has a little way to go.

I think in all honesty there's more important things at this time to look at with football, for instance how money is effecting the game, the way our league is going, the power the TV companies have over clubs. The start of the national side. Though in all honesty with this campaign itself, the involvement of a bookie just kind of makes you question the motive.

Above all though, I wish there was a bit more appreciation in this country for just how accepting we are. For whoever you are, where-ever you're from, whatever tickles your fancy, Britain is one of the best countries in the world to be. Sometimes among all the furor that surrounds some of these campaigns, people forget that.

Offline supertom

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2013, 07:43:50 PM »
Could there be a case too that perhaps some people who aren't gay get more offended by this than people who actually are? I mean we Brits we do relish the opportunity to complain about things which are offensive, or make an issue of it.

Offline Louzie0

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2013, 07:45:44 PM »
Love the rant but nahhhhh.
I do not accept that denigrating any player, racial group or sexuality will make anything better about their football.

I just want Villa to be the best!

Offline bertlambshank

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2013, 07:51:10 PM »
The term 'gay' is being used by the kids as the new bad.As in 'not happy'.Yep.i don't get it either.
Time to stop hanging with the kids I think.

Offline saunders_heroes

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2013, 08:00:12 PM »
Some gay people hide their sexuality in fear of being ostracised, ridiculed, humiliated and even beaten up, yet there's still people (even on here) that think homophobia isn't as bad as racism. Get a grip for crying out loud.

Offline saunders_heroes

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2013, 08:01:48 PM »
Could there be a case too that perhaps some people who aren't gay get more offended by this than people who actually are? I mean we Brits we do relish the opportunity to complain about things which are offensive, or make an issue of it.

The very same argument could have been labeled at black people in years gone by. Absolute cobblers.

Online Monty

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2013, 08:05:57 PM »
Homophobia is and has always been a problem in football. I know it's a long time ago, but the sport actually prospered so much early on because a Master at Eton, Rev. E.J.Thring, thought team sports were good, because they prevented solipsism which leads to masturbation which leads to perversity, blindness and atheism. And yes, 'perversity' is a very common Victorian euphemism for homosexuality.

Now? Well, we're not so far from when Graeme Le Saux was called gay just for reading the Guardian instead of the Daily Tits or whatever - an event which says many things about the English game even now - nor from Justin Fashanu's suicide, and certainly not from Robbie Rogers saying that being openly gay was 'impossible' in professional sport. However, the fact that Rogers has since found himself a club (albeit in California) is encouraging to a certain degree. However, the problem is persistent here, and it's a problem which is largely so obvious, so assumed, that it has taken a very long time to identify.

Supertom, the main problem with what you say is that you're very ready to say 'they' and 'them', as if gay people can be homogenised. That's what's unhelpful, and indicative - gay people have not been accepted as part of the mainstream football culture. It will change, but it'll be a tough old slog along the way.

Offline PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2013, 08:08:29 PM »
What the hell does Homophobia in football have to do with Paddy Power? I'm sorry, it strikes me as a bit of publicity stunt.

Offline Louzie0

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2013, 08:10:23 PM »
Could there be a case too that perhaps some people who aren't gay get more offended by this than people who actually are? I mean we Brits we do relish the opportunity to complain about things which are offensive, or make an issue of it.

I am offended by bigoted language and/ or actions wherever I see or hear them.
Because they are bigoted.
Hope that is clear,

UTV

Offline saunders_heroes

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2013, 08:12:52 PM »
What the hell does Homophobia in football have to do with Paddy Power? I'm sorry, it strikes me as a bit of publicity stunt.

But it shouldn't be ignored just because Paddy Power is involved. Stonewall are also involved and they are a fantastic organisation. I'd hate to think the Power link gives a convenient excuse for haters to ignore this. (I'm not suggesting you are of course).

Offline PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt

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Re: Rainbow Laces
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2013, 08:18:46 PM »
What the hell does Homophobia in football have to do with Paddy Power? I'm sorry, it strikes me as a bit of publicity stunt.

But it shouldn't be ignored just because Paddy Power is involved. Stonewall are also involved and they are a fantastic organisation. I'd hate to think the Power link gives a convenient excuse for haters to ignore this. (I'm not suggesting you are of course).

I agree it shouldn't be ignored, but I'm sure Paddy Power will find some way of making a few quid from it. Profiteering on good causes is not something that sits well with me.

 


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