collapse collapse

Please donate to help towards the costs of keeping this site going. Thank You.

Recent Topics

Gordon Cowans by Pete3206
[Today at 08:51:36 AM]


Villa Park Redevelopment by Ads
[Today at 08:47:18 AM]


All aboard the shuttle bus. by algy
[Today at 08:04:45 AM]


FFP by Chris Harte
[Today at 07:52:57 AM]


Other Games - 2023/24 by Dogtanian
[Today at 07:10:41 AM]


Please Donate to Keep This Site Going - Link on Left & Top of Page by Bad English
[Today at 06:57:08 AM]


Muppet Donations by Bad English
[Today at 06:56:08 AM]


Aston Villa v Wolverhampton Wanderers Pre Match by Allan C
[Today at 06:23:47 AM]

Recent Posts

Re: Gordon Cowans by Pete3206
[Today at 08:51:36 AM]


Re: Villa Park Redevelopment by Ads
[Today at 08:47:18 AM]


Re: Villa Park Redevelopment by Villan82
[Today at 08:43:09 AM]


Re: Villa Park Redevelopment by langleylions
[Today at 08:38:11 AM]


Re: Villa Park Redevelopment by Villan82
[Today at 08:34:31 AM]


Re: Gordon Cowans by Gareth
[Today at 08:27:22 AM]


Re: Villa Park Redevelopment by langleylions
[Today at 08:26:47 AM]


Re: Gordon Cowans by Abbeyfealeavfc
[Today at 08:15:22 AM]

Follow us on...

Author Topic: Negativity  (Read 33148 times)

Offline Dr Butler

  • Member
  • Posts: 5828
  • Location: Duxford, Cambridge.
  • GM : 10.08.2022
Re: Negativity
« Reply #165 on: September 20, 2013, 02:57:43 PM »
Ads, I am pretty sure we won't have 5/6 bad performances like that in the same match again all season....

looking forward to the game Saturday.

UTV
the Doc

Offline stubbsyandy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1035
  • Location: Missionary work in the Brecon Beacons
Re: Negativity
« Reply #166 on: September 20, 2013, 03:37:04 PM »
The same team he picked against Newcastle could and should have beat Newcastle. We cannot carry five or six rank bad performances.
I don't think we should be blaming the entire squad, tactics etc...at the end of the day we had several players whose ability to pass on the day was rank.
It doesn't mean they have lost that ability as we usually see a good passing game. Agreed it was a bit desperate at the end just knocking it long but by then our confidence had gone.
Just bring in Sylla to beef it up a bit, and hope Andi clicks soon or we may have to rst him.

Offline pauliewalnuts

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71073
  • GM : 26.08.2024
Re: Negativity
« Reply #167 on: September 20, 2013, 03:40:25 PM »
I think people are wrong to think we signed Kozak instead of an attacking midfielder. We just didn't sign the later because the player Lambert wanted wasn't available at the right price.

Couldn't you then make the argument that instead of spending anything at all on Kozak, who plays in a position we're pretty well stocked for, he'd have been better off putting some of that money towards the AM we definitely need?

Don't get me wrong, Kozak may or may not be a good player, I really don't know, but what I do know is that whilst you could possibly make a small case for another striker (Benteke getting injured, for instance), you could make a significantly bigger one for an AM.

I don't think we are stocked in that position. If Benteke is injured, then there was no natural target man replacement. Only Gabby can play up top on his own, but then if he is up there, we lose width and pace out wide.

Lambert didn't switch to Kozak at the last minute, he had been chasing him for a long time and had an amount set in his budget to buy him.

I get that argument, but if that's the case, what was the thinking in buying Helenius, then?

We might not have a direct replacement for Benteke (easy to imagine, he's pretty much irreplaceable), but we at least have options across the frontline. It might mean shifting things around, but we have decent forward players with which to work.

Where are our options in terms of creating things from midfield?

Offline Ads

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 39427
  • Location: The Breeze
  • GM : 17.04.2024
Re: Negativity
« Reply #168 on: September 20, 2013, 05:11:14 PM »
I am going to be honest in that I simply don't know what Helenius brings to the table because I have seen five minutes of him in a league Cup game. I know some have said he is a bit different in the sense that just because he's 6' 5" doesn't mean he is a target man. Perhaps he has been brought in for something more unorthodox up top?

As to the midfield, Bacuna is a right sided midfielder. His display in there against Liverpool was iffy, but he looked lightening quick and actually did some decent things inbetween trying too hard a failing.

Tonev is another alternative.

I am not arguing that we don't need that player with the guile to do something special in the advanced midfield role, but against the point that Lambert chose to buy Kozak instead of one.

Offline supertom

  • Member
  • Posts: 18751
  • Location: High Wycombe, just left of Paradise.
Re: Negativity
« Reply #169 on: September 20, 2013, 05:16:59 PM »
I am going to be honest in that I simply don't know what Helenius brings to the table because I have seen five minutes of him in a league Cup game. I know some have said he is a bit different in the sense that just because he's 6' 5" doesn't mean he is a target man. Perhaps he has been brought in for something more unorthodox up top?

As to the midfield, Bacuna is a right sided midfielder. His display in there against Liverpool was iffy, but he looked lightening quick and actually did some decent things inbetween trying too hard a failing.

Tonev is another alternative.

I am not arguing that we don't need that player with the guile to do something special in the advanced midfield role, but against the point that Lambert chose to buy Kozak instead of one.
I think Lambert sees him as a number 10 sort of striker. Albeit it was pre-season against pish opposition, but he did look good dropping off and seems to have an eye for a pass. It may be worth giving him a try out at home, maybe playing off of CB. They did show brief signs of linking up quite well in the brief times the played together in pre-season.

Offline Monty

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25417
  • Location: pizzaland
  • GM : 25.05.2024
Re: Negativity
« Reply #170 on: September 20, 2013, 05:35:42 PM »
I am going to be honest in that I simply don't know what Helenius brings to the table because I have seen five minutes of him in a league Cup game. I know some have said he is a bit different in the sense that just because he's 6' 5" doesn't mean he is a target man. Perhaps he has been brought in for something more unorthodox up top?

As to the midfield, Bacuna is a right sided midfielder. His display in there against Liverpool was iffy, but he looked lightening quick and actually did some decent things inbetween trying too hard a failing.

Tonev is another alternative.

I am not arguing that we don't need that player with the guile to do something special in the advanced midfield role, but against the point that Lambert chose to buy Kozak instead of one.

If we grant the premise that the right player wasn't available at the right price, then he clearly has. Let's say we wanted to pay £8m for Kiyotake, but Nurnberg wanted £14m (I know there's all sorts of caveats with Kiyotake, but I'm just using him as a possible example). We could have probably met them halfway, but we could have definitely met their asking price had Lambert not squirrelled money away to spend on Kozak - as you rightly say, he was after him for months, and it is one of the best points about our manager that he researches his signings so thoroughly. However, I feel he has seriously misjudged the needs of this squad, and it will really show this season, especially at home.

I still don't think we'll go down, and I don't think we'll be in much relegation danger either, but I think that this is a mistake nonetheless.

Offline stubbsyandy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1035
  • Location: Missionary work in the Brecon Beacons
Re: Negativity
« Reply #171 on: September 20, 2013, 05:45:06 PM »
I remember a lot of comments on here after Benteke's first games saying he looked a dud..

Offline Monty

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25417
  • Location: pizzaland
  • GM : 25.05.2024
Re: Negativity
« Reply #172 on: September 20, 2013, 05:47:45 PM »
I remember a lot of comments on here after Benteke's first games saying he looked a dud..

But it's not about how good Kozak is - he may be brilliant, for all we know. It's just that he's the wrong sort of player.

Online PaulWinch again

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49020
  • Location: winchester
  • GM : 25.05.2024
Re: Negativity
« Reply #173 on: September 20, 2013, 05:50:42 PM »
I don't think we can judge Kozak really. However another position would have been more useful in our current state.

Offline pauliewalnuts

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71073
  • GM : 26.08.2024
Re: Negativity
« Reply #174 on: September 20, 2013, 06:02:27 PM »
I remember a lot of comments on here after Benteke's first games saying he looked a dud..

But it's not about how good Kozak is - he may be brilliant, for all we know. It's just that he's the wrong sort of player.

Exactly.

It's not about Kozak at all. I've no idea whether he'll turn out decent or not. Same with Helenius.

It is about where resources were allocated in terms of whereabouts on the pitch rather than in which players.

Offline SoccerHQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 42391
  • Location: Down, down, deeper and Down.
  • GM : 19.06.2021
Re: Negativity
« Reply #175 on: September 20, 2013, 09:46:09 PM »
Helenius looks to be a Berbatov type forward from the little I've seen, some who will score goals but can also drop deep and link up with the midfield. That's also something we've been missing from our striking options for so long probably right back to Merson/Carbone days.

The thing is though Lambert has barely used Tonev and Helenius so far so he clearly thinks they're not quite ready for the prem. We need an attacking signing that can go straight into the 11 and improve us, hopefuly iy will be a case of better late than never in January.

Offline Smirker

  • Member
  • Posts: 6353
  • Location: Birmingham
  • GM : Sep, 2014
Re: Negativity
« Reply #176 on: September 21, 2013, 05:53:40 PM »
 8)

I couldn't watch the game today, can someone explain Bentekje's injury? Did it look bad or was he taken off as a precaution?

Please let him be OK.

Offline dekko

  • Member
  • Posts: 1252
Re: Negativity
« Reply #177 on: September 22, 2013, 12:08:01 AM »
8)

I couldn't watch the game today, can someone explain Bentekje's injury? Did it look bad or was he taken off as a precaution?

Please let him be OK.

Apparently its likely to be a hip flexor injury, which normally means 1-4 weeks out.  Its likely to be one of those that looks/feels worse at the time than it actually is.

Offline olaftab

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 39681
  • Location: Castle Bromwich
  • GM : 12.06.2024
Re: Negativity
« Reply #178 on: September 22, 2013, 08:46:16 AM »
I remember a lot of comments on here after Benteke's first games saying he looked a dud..

But it's not about how good Kozak is - he may be brilliant, for all we know. It's just that he's the wrong sort of player.
However we adopted our play it suit Benteke as it became clear what sort of player he was and how effective he was. Similarly if Kozak is capable we will change to suit his style. You can not find ready made replacements for players like Benteke. Chelsea have huge resources but there is not another Drogba around at the moment. I am 100% sure whilst Paul & Co recognised the potential in Benteke they  were surprised almost as much as the rest of football at how good he turned out to be.

Online Dante Lavelli

  • Member
  • Posts: 9549
  • GM : 25.05.2023
Re: Negativity
« Reply #179 on: September 22, 2013, 09:25:38 AM »
I think the theory that Lambert wanted a creative midfielder but could not get them at the right price is probably correct.  And whilst I understand that some of the Kovak money could have been channelled that direction I don't agree with it because:

I think Lambert wants there to be a degree of equality with in the squad.  Signing a "15m player" has the potential to unsettle the balance of the squad.

This would be exaggerated if that "15m player" did not immediately have the talent to justify that fee.  Let's face it the player is likely to be largely unknown to us and is probably young.  The expectation on him could be too great if his fee is inflated.

I am comfortable that PL seemingly knows who he wants and is prepared to wait.  Maybe in january the other club will have signed a replacement and the fee will drop down to PL's justifiable level.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal