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Author Topic: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation - online link - post #43  (Read 50909 times)

Online Clampy

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2013, 09:30:29 AM »
I think first of the all the club should be congratulated for giving Amfy not only their time but also by the sound of it a lot of help. Whilst I can't speak for other clubs in the area, when it comes to liasoning with our fans, I like to think we're better than most.  I hope something good comes out of it eventually because i'd be happy to see standing back in some form or another.

Amfy, if I see you and time allows, i'll pop over and fill a survey out.

Offline amfy

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2013, 09:46:38 AM »
The fsf have also repeatedly commented on how great Villa are to deal with compared to many clubs, and this is around fan's experience and/legal rights in general, not just standing.

Don't worry if you can't find me or reach me today. This isn't a once only offer I'll be around for a few weeks yet in different areas of the ground and surrounding watering holes. We also there will be an online version in some form soon. I'll bring a few to the pub each week after the game anyway so some of you will catch me there at some point. (Plumbutt?)

I have had a ridiculously frantic week at work, so I have been a bit late getting this started this week, but I tweeted quite late last night, and the response was good. Over the weeks I can hopefully get some momentum going. Thanks to those who are offering help. If I don't see you today, I'll get back to you before our next game so we can make plans.

Offline amfy

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2013, 10:47:44 PM »
Really good today. Special thanks to those that made a special effort to come & find me. Will post more detail 2mo when sober!

Offline amfy

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2013, 09:42:41 AM »
Yesterday I got to the ground at around 12.30, and got started at around 12.45. It was a little awkward at first. I approached people whose kids seemed to be well occupied in the various activities, but a fair proportion were still saying something along the lines of 'I can't at the moment, I've got my kids', which is fair enough.

However, as the parents began to relax into the day, and their kids began to run around with other people's kids and the parents were happy they were safe and occupied, more people were happy to talk to me.

Then more people began to retire to the academy bar, and then it got really easy, because I didn't need to juggle clipboards, and I could work with several tables at once.

The overall response was overwhelmingly positive. People not only wanted to sign up, at Family Fun Day it was a solid YES from everyone for the safe standing trial. a wide age range too, from young teenagers to pensioners.

I would have got more if people hadn't been so keen to talk about the good old days and I had some great conversations, whilst occasionally thinking ' yes, but if you could just keep writing while you're telling me this it'd be great!'

On the other hand, many of these conversations are important. People need to know that you aren't going to be able to just turn up & find your mates on the day like we used to, but that the risk of surges and crushes would be gone.

A conversation I had with a few people was around cost. Until whole stands are rebuilt, it can't be cheaper. This is because whilst there would be space for more people in a safe standing area, there still won't be more space in the stand itself. That is to say - what happens when twice as many people head for their half time pie &pint? Imagine the concourses of The Lower North Stand or The Holte with all those extra people - it can't happen. Increased capacities can only come when the whole stand - including concourses, fire exits, and toilets have been built with it in mind, and that is some way off.

My big surprise of the day was the few conversations I had in The Holte, with people around me, and people we drink with at half time. It seems they are potentially  the difficult ones to convince. Everyone said that I needed to make sure I canvassed a wide demographic, and that The Holte is preaching to the converted, but it turns out that The Holte Enders could be the hardest work! It's not because they don't want standing, they don't want to sign up because:
'The club have been talking about this for ages, they should have just sorted it'
'Why do they keep making us sit down then? They're just taking the piss'
'It isn't up to the fans to sort this out - its up to the club'
'there's no point just doing that stupid little area - all or nothing'
'If its not going back to how it was, there's no point'
Canvassing closer to this area is going to be more of a challenge as it was clear that there is a fair bit of intrasigence.

Anyway - overall, between family fun day and the pub after, I have manged to canvass 96 people, of which I think maybe 3 have said NO. It's a good start.

I' m just going to be in The Holte Pub before Spurs because it'll be fairly easy in there to get round a good number of people, and I can still have a pint as I go!

I think I'll try & get a couple of recruits on board for the next league game.(fmwmu I am looking at you!) - we can have this done & dusted quite quick.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2013, 11:13:26 AM »
Good work, Amfy.

Although I support the principle of safe standing I do have one reservation. My recent health issues means that it's probably not suitable for me at present. I'm sure that there are plenty of other people who either for health reasons or their age similarly wouldn't want to stand. The issue comes if those people currently sit in the area that might potentially be used for this trial and they are forced to relocate. As I say I'm in favour of the idea but there are wider issues that need to be considered. 

Offline amfy

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2013, 11:54:51 AM »
Clearly there's no getting round the re-location of people in the trial area that don't want to stand. If it's successful and expande toothed areas of the ground, a load more people would need to move. There are only 256 seats in the trial area, but it's spot near the corner flag does mean that a fair few of them are young families, because kids love getting such a good view of their heroes when they come to take a corner, or wheel over to the corner flag in celebration when they score - so its an interesting point. If it comes to it, I'm sure they club will do all they can to ease re-location, but there will obviously be some left unhappy. The club have been here before for less sympathetic reasons (e.g. Turning the middle Tinity Upper corporate)

Offline Rudy65

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2013, 12:28:38 PM »
Apologies for sounding so negative but why is standing so important to people? I have stood on the Holte many times in the past and as a teenager the surge of the crowd and meeting up with your mates was part of the excitement. If as you say, this wouldnt happen now, i dont see the point.

Personally, i think football has moved on for the better with all seater stadia and we should leave it at that.

Offline Dave Cooper please

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2013, 01:02:50 PM »
Apologies for sounding so negative but why is standing so important to people? I have stood on the Holte many times in the past and as a teenager the surge of the crowd and meeting up with your mates was part of the excitement. If as you say, this wouldnt happen now, i dont see the point.

Personally, i think football has moved on for the better with all seater stadia and we should leave it at that.

Fair enough, but only three negative responses out of 96 suggests you are in a minority and many people would like to have the choice of standing if they wish.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2013, 01:05:34 PM »
Apologies for sounding so negative but why is standing so important to people? I have stood on the Holte many times in the past and as a teenager the surge of the crowd and meeting up with your mates was part of the excitement. If as you say, this wouldnt happen now, i dont see the point.

Personally, i think football has moved on for the better with all seater stadia and we should leave it at that.

You sit out of choice. Why shouldn't I be allowed to stand for the same reason?

Offline richard moore

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2013, 01:25:33 PM »
You are a star amfy, fantastic effort, thank you for all you are doing

Offline PGW

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2013, 01:35:18 PM »
Apologies for sounding so negative but why is standing so important to people? I have stood on the Holte many times in the past and as a teenager the surge of the crowd and meeting up with your mates was part of the excitement. If as you say, this wouldnt happen now, i dont see the point.

Personally, i think football has moved on for the better with all seater stadia and we should leave it at that.

You sit out of choice. Why shouldn't I be allowed to stand for the same reason?
Personally i am a 'sitter' - an age and dodgy knee issue but i back this 110% i know there are large numbers who would prefer to stand...so i say let 'em hopefully they won't be standing in front of me then.
The problem will be that the area will not be big enough to accommodate all that wish to stand. Will require a ST i imagine.
Yes, i hope all the work Amfy and co's are doing bears fruit. Good Luck

Offline martin o`who??

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2013, 01:42:02 PM »
Being effectively forced to sit down, whether we like it or not is a bit of an imposition on our liberty, there should be mixed areas on all four sides at every ground and people should be free to make their own choices. I personally HATE having to sit, but thats my preference. Any time you wish to move out of your seat everyone has to stand up, everyone behind stands up because they can`t see, its an inconvenience all round, going back several seasons there was a miserable get in our row who quite simply refused to move when anyone wanted to pass, you literally had to climb over the twat so i used to really take my time and fuck his view up for him, people would stick their arses/crotch in his face but he never relented, if ever standing comes back, i`ll be at the front of the queue.

Offline frank

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2013, 02:12:32 PM »
A very useful exercise, Amfy. Well done for all your efforts.

Offline amfy

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2013, 02:54:13 PM »
Apologies for sounding so negative but why is standing so important to people? I have stood on the Holte many times in the past and as a teenager the surge of the crowd and meeting up with your mates was part of the excitement. If as you say, this wouldnt happen now, i dont see the point.

Personally, i think football has moved on for the better with all seater stadia and we should leave it at that.

I guess the point is that we're not going back, we're going forward.

What is being proposed is more like what people currently do much of the time - stand at their seat. There are clearly a lot of people who like to do this, because week in week out, loads of people choose to. This model is pretty much about creating an environment where it is safe and legal to stand at your seat (rail seat) They won't be in the way of those who want to sit, they won't have to have to have daft arguments with the stewards and stewards can spend their time actually assisting people instead of fighting a needless battle on standing. We won't have situation like we had at Stoke where people went over 3 rows of seats celebrating, because they would be standing in a space which was designed for standing, and where the rail would support them. What your argument misses is that people ARE standing, they just aren't doing it legally or safely.

My personal view is that football has got worse with all seater stadia, that it has lost its passion but each to their own. You are being consulted too. When I get my survey monkey up ( the club have said yes to this now) - please fill it in, because right now I've got so many yesses it looks fake!

Offline Rudy65

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Re: Safe Standing - Fan led consultation
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2013, 02:59:44 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Rudy65 on Today at 12:28:38 PM
Apologies for sounding so negative but why is standing so important to people? I have stood on the Holte many times in the past and as a teenager the surge of the crowd and meeting up with your mates was part of the excitement. If as you say, this wouldnt happen now, i dont see the point.

Personally, i think football has moved on for the better with all seater stadia and we should leave it at that.

You sit out of choice. Why shouldn't I be allowed to stand for the same reason?


Its a bit like sayng you want to stand at the cinema or the theatre. You cant, end of.

 


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