The Midfield Destroyer - an endangered species?

[Mister E]

Having watched the Arse-Munchen referee last night flashing the yellow cards for relatively innocuous challenges I do think the tackle is endangered.
The midfield destroyer is changing its spots.  Look at Petrov's stats of a couple of seasons' ago: he had the highest number of interceptions in the P'ship. Being a destroyer is now about breaking up the play rather than breaking an opponent's leg.

In the end, the game seeks highly-skilled, multi-faceted footballers, and tackling is not a skill - on its own - that will guarantee a path toward money heaven.

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Mascherano isn't a talentless midfield destroyer though.  And you might get away with it in Spain with Barcelona when your midfield usually has about 75% possession and 90% of balls are played on the ground, but I think it would be suicidal in the Premier League.

Cannavaro was only 5 foot 9 inches tall and he would have cut it in the Premiership.

It comes down to being a good footballer ultimately. God was a sensational centre half because he was an exceptional footballer.

NRC will never make it as a centre half, not because he is 5 foot 9 inches tall, but because he is a very limited footballer.

[Risso]

Mascherano isn't a talentless midfield destroyer though.  And you might get away with it in Spain with Barcelona when your midfield usually has about 75% possession and 90% of balls are played on the ground, but I think it would be suicidal in the Premier League.

Cannavaro was only 5 foot 9 inches tall and he would have cut it in the Premiership.

It comes down to being a good footballer ultimately. God was a sensational centre half because he was an exceptional footballer.

NRC will never make it as a centre half, not because he is 5 foot 9 inches tall, but because he is a very limited footballer.

Being 6'2" would have hidden some of that though.  If you're going to be short as a defencer, you have to be exceptional.

[Fasth56]

The art of tackling is being removed from our game and not for it's good either. We all applaud fantastic shots and love to see someone going past a player with skill rather than speed but right up there with that,  is the precision timing of a full blooded challenge which takes the ball and man out of the game cleanly. (by out of the game I mean at that moment).

Football is becoming the equivalent of netball with all the cries of there was contact, of course there was contact it's a bloody contact sport.

Back to NRC, for all his endeavour I wouldn't even class him as a good tackler, he could nick a ball here and there by chasing someone down but well timed sliding tackles and block tackles were not his forte. This along with all the other attributes he lacked made him a very lucky bloke to have made a career in the top flight of English football.

[Clark W Griswold]

He seems to divide opinion on here. I'd say he's a lot better than some of his critics on here suggest, but not as good as he thinks he is. As pointed out though, playing at his best level, he would walk straight into our team at the moment. He is actually one of the things we are lacking.

[Chris Smith]

Having watched the Arse-Munchen referee last night flashing the yellow cards for relatively innocuous challenges I do think the tackle is endangered.
The midfield destroyer is changing its spots.  Look at Petrov's stats of a couple of seasons' ago: he had the highest number of interceptions in the P'ship. Being a destroyer is now about breaking up the play rather than breaking an opponent's leg.

In the end, the game seeks highly-skilled, multi-faceted footballers, and tackling is not a skill - on its own - that will guarantee a path toward money heaven.

That's exactly right. Players get very little leeway these days, the PL is becoming more European in nature and the NRCs of this world are becoming an anachronism. It's about blocks and interceptions rather than the old fashioned 'reducer'.

[TheMalandro]

Unless you are called Stoke

[Salsa Party Animal]

I thought more team would like to sign more 6ft 2ish African/French players for midfield general role instead of the like of Reo Coker.

[Big Dick Edwards]

NRC wasn't a midfield destroyer. He couldn't tackle any more effectively than your average player. His big attribute was his stamina, ability to close down opponents and a physical strength on the ball for a relatively short man.  Unfortunately this was negated by a poor range of passing skills, whether over long distance or short. The same poor technique meant he also never looked likely to score a goal.
He's a guy who if he recognised his limitations and kept his game very simple would be an effective Premier League midfielder for a bottom half club. Unfortunately he thought he was better than what he actually was.

[john e]

I think it's more that he's just a very limited footballer who probably still over values himself.  He was an athletic, physical player, but his footballing intelligence was almost completely missing.  He was OK at short 5 yard passes, but his normal response upon winning the ball was just to drive football at speed with his head down until he ran into an opposition player.  In his head he's probably still a top 6 Premier League footballer commanding £50K a week, when in reality he's probably better suited to the lower reaches of the Championship on £15K a week.  He's also one of those players who has got better by not playing, if you know what I mean.  For me personally, he's also another symbol of the failure of the O'Neill years, as NRC must have cost us more than £20m in fees and wages.

spot on for me regarding NRC

[john e]

the 'midfield destroyer' argument does my brains in, we need a 'hard man' in midfield to go and kick people is something we see quite alot, in my view its a load of cobblers

these so called midfield generals are always in the mold of Keane, Veira, Mascherano, Toure, Essien etc and completly negates the fact that whilst they are hard man, they are all also very very good footballers

take away there footballing ability and you just have a thug in the mold of Vinnie Jones, and is not what we need.

( best hard man plus skillfull/creative footballer all rolled into one was Johnny Giles )  just my opinion obviously

[KevinGage]

But I don't think he's suggesting that they do.

He's saying that they play the likes of Song, Mascherano and (in the past) Toure in central defence rather than playing more typical central defenders like Puyol there.

Which they do.

Exactly, I feel like the original point has been lost though. You can talk about the talents of each individual player till you're blue in the face but really I was only offering a suggestion of where football and in particular this type of player would stand in say 30/40 years time. I'm not saying I'm convinced either way that this suggestion is right or wrong. More offering a point for debate.

If you look at the English clubs where money is no obstacle, there seems to be a move away from the stronger, physical type of player.  Chelsea in particular illustrate this point.  When they first started spending big in 2003, players of that ilk seemed to be a key focus.  Ditto Man City. 

Set peices are still such a huge part of the game in England -and they will be for the forseeable, IMO- so that aspect of play cannot be ignored to the same extent as it might be in other leagues, such as Spain, Italy and Portugal.

Some of that is cultural, those countries have long had a philosophy about how the game should be played, even before the emergence of teams like the modern day Barcelona.  Some of it is physical, Northern Europeans tend to be taller than their Southern European counterparts.  And some of it is simply practical, better weather in countries towards the Mediterranean = better pitches (traditionally) and less of a need to charge around simply to keep warm.  Make the ball do the work. In rougher, bog-like conditions, the game is more stop start.  And free kicks and corners take on more importance.  I'm talking here about underage level -as professional clubs across the continent will have decent facilities and pitches (usually).  But those traits are learned early -and are difficult to shake off in latter years.

For England, Germany provide a decent example of what a similar nation can achieve when you marry physical attributes with a focus on technical ability.  Don't abandon the physical aspect of the game completely, just don't be over reliant on it.

[john e]

anyone else remember when Barcalona were the dirtiest side in Europe ?

tell kids today about it and they think your a nutter

[Ron Manager]

But I don't think he's suggesting that they do.

He's saying that they play the likes of Song, Mascherano and (in the past) Toure in central defence rather than playing more typical central defenders like Puyol there.

Which they do.

Exactly, I feel like the original point has been lost though. You can talk about the talents of each individual player till you're blue in the face but really I was only offering a suggestion of where football and in particular this type of player would stand in say 30/40 years time. I'm not saying I'm convinced either way that this suggestion is right or wrong. More offering a point for debate.

If you look at the English clubs where money is no obstacle, there seems to be a move away from the stronger, physical type of player.  Chelsea in particular illustrate this point.  When they first started spending big in 2003, players of that ilk seemed to be a key focus.  Ditto Man City. 

Set peices are still such a huge part of the game in England -and they will be for the forseeable, IMO- so that aspect of play cannot be ignored to the same extent as it might be in other leagues, such as Spain, Italy and Portugal.

Some of that is cultural, those countries have long had a philosophy about how the game should be played, even before the emergence of teams like the modern day Barcelona.  Some of it is physical, Northern Europeans tend to be taller than their Southern European counterparts.  And some of it is simply practical, better weather in countries towards the Mediterranean = better pitches (traditionally) and less of a need to charge around simply to keep warm.  Make the ball do the work. In rougher, bog-like conditions, the game is more stop start.  And free kicks and corners take on more importance.  I'm talking here about underage level -as professional clubs across the continent will have decent facilities and pitches (usually).  But those traits are learned early -and are difficult to shake off in latter years.

For England, Germany provide a decent example of what a similar nation can achieve when you marry physical attributes with a focus on technical ability.  Don't abandon the physical aspect of the game completely, just don't be over reliant on it.

Which is why I expected Lambert to bring in a couple of players from the German Leagues with exactly those attributes when he took over.

I was wrong in my assumptions.

[garyshawsknee]

The more effective teams have all shown that pressing high up the pitch as a team is far more productive than having one stopper doing it on his own, as teams will just pass around him.

Southampton have shown this in their few games since the new guy took over. On our better performances,even we've done it this season.