The Midfield Destroyer - an endangered species?

[Jockey Randall]

Discussing our previous player of this ilk NRC in another thread, it got me thinking about why his career has taken such a nosedive?

I liked him and always thought he was a solid player for us who obviously enjoyed a tackle, but now struggling to find a club in what should be the peak years of his career aged 28, there must be some reason for this? It certainly doesn't appear like he's done a Michael Johnson and tossed his career down the toilet through booze and other antics.

I think I'm starting to come round to the view that it's a case of him being a victim of the evolution of football. Certainly at the end of the 2010 season, the total number of fouls in football had been in steady decline, I'd imagine it's very much still going that way. You only appear to have to blow on some players and they go down. I also think back to that Being Liverpool documentary where the players were constantly being told to stay on their feet. They can't be the only team being coached this? Maybe tackling is a dying art and this sort of player will gradually become extinct?

[Risso]

I think it's more that he's just a very limited footballer who probably still over values himself.  He was an athletic, physical player, but his footballing intelligence was almost completely missing.  He was OK at short 5 yard passes, but his normal response upon winning the ball was just to drive football at speed with his head down until he ran into an opposition player.  In his head he's probably still a top 6 Premier League footballer commanding £50K a week, when in reality he's probably better suited to the lower reaches of the Championship on £15K a week.  He's also one of those players who has got better by not playing, if you know what I mean.  For me personally, he's also another symbol of the failure of the O'Neill years, as NRC must have cost us more than £20m in fees and wages.

[TheMalandro]

NRC must have cost us more than £20m in fees and wages.

Randy could have bought Tranmere for that, pity

[pedro25]

I thought he stayed on his feet well, unlike Delph, he was very good at standing block tackles, hassling the ball off the opposition etc, just the rest of his game was very very limited.

[bilsim]

Limited or not, I'd jump at the chance to get him to bolster our currently shambolic midfield.

[JUAN PABLO]

Never rated him.

[Jockey Randall]

Actually thinking about the way Barca have recently tried to utilise players of this type as central defenders, maybe this sort of player will gradually get pushed further back, and big central defenders who aren't comfortable in possession will suffer the chop instead?

[pedro25]

Barca can get away with it given the quality they have further forward, I think other teams would struggle.  Strikers like Benteke would have a field day against 5ft7 centre halves.

[Jockey Randall]

Barca can get away with it given the quality they have further forward, I think other teams would struggle.  Strikers like Benteke would have a field day against 5ft7 centre halves.

Fair point. I'm speculating about the future of football though, as surely it seems logical that more teams will try and copy Barca's lead as they are widely considered to be the best side in the world? The way they play the game is clearly the best way to achieve consistent results at the moment. Look at Allardyce's style, it worked a lot better 9/10 years ago than it does today as the game has evolved. Teams like Arsenal that regularly struggled against this style are slowly finding ways to adapt and combat it.

[Risso]

Actually thinking about the way Barca have recently tried to utilise players of this type as central defenders, maybe this sort of player will gradually get pushed further back, and big central defenders who aren't comfortable in possession will suffer the chop instead?

Why would you swap a 6'2" defender who isn't comfortable on the ball for somebody who is 5'9" and not comfortable on the ball?  That's just about the worst defensive idea I've heard.  Are you sure you're not Paul Lambert?

[Jockey Randall]

Actually thinking about the way Barca have recently tried to utilise players of this type as central defenders, maybe this sort of player will gradually get pushed further back, and big central defenders who aren't comfortable in possession will suffer the chop instead?

Why would you swap a 6'2" defender who isn't comfortable on the ball for somebody who is 5'9" and not comfortable on the ball?  That's just about the worst defensive idea I've heard.  Are you sure you're not Paul Lambert?

I'm not saying it's my idea, just speculating as to where the game is headed. You're right though, I shouldn't have said big, being big should have no bearing on how good you are in possession of the ball. Although looking at Barca maybe there might be something in that?

[Risso]

Actually thinking about the way Barca have recently tried to utilise players of this type as central defenders, maybe this sort of player will gradually get pushed further back, and big central defenders who aren't comfortable in possession will suffer the chop instead?

Why would you swap a 6'2" defender who isn't comfortable on the ball for somebody who is 5'9" and not comfortable on the ball?  That's just about the worst defensive idea I've heard.  Are you sure you're not Paul Lambert?

I'm not saying it's my idea, just speculating as to where the game is headed. You're right though, I shouldn't have said big, being big should have no bearing on how good you are in possession of the ball. Although looking at Barca maybe there might be something in that?

I don't think even Barcelona would play Messi in defence.

[Dave]

But I don't think he's suggesting that they do.

He's saying that they play the likes of Song, Mascherano and (in the past) Toure in central defence rather than playing more typical central defenders like Puyol there.

Which they do.

[Risso]

Mascherano isn't a talentless midfield destroyer though.  And you might get away with it in Spain with Barcelona when your midfield usually has about 75% possession and 90% of balls are played on the ground, but I think it would be suicidal in the Premier League.

[Jockey Randall]

But I don't think he's suggesting that they do.

He's saying that they play the likes of Song, Mascherano and (in the past) Toure in central defence rather than playing more typical central defenders like Puyol there.

Which they do.

Exactly, I feel like the original point has been lost though. You can talk about the talents of each individual player till you're blue in the face but really I was only offering a suggestion of where football and in particular this type of player would stand in say 30/40 years time. I'm not saying I'm convinced either way that this suggestion is right or wrong. More offering a point for debate.