Formation

[edgysatsuma]

I just want width! That first 15 of the second half last night, with agbon tearing people up out wide was perfect. Then, he went central? I didn't get it, he must have known what he was doing originally worked? He obviously lacks a football noggin, which is why he is perfect for that role, run as fast as you can, get to the line, put the ball in, kushty.

[Brend'Watkins]

2nd half last night was the first real showing of width with intent last night.  It worked for a while until Gabby drifted into the middle.  Having width frees up Zog to roam at his most effective and with Weimann and Gabby playing the wide roles you have two players who will bust a gut to help out at the back when needed.

[paul_e]

I just want width! That first 15 of the second half last night, with agbon tearing people up out wide was perfect. Then, he went central? I didn't get it, he must have known what he was doing originally worked? He obviously lacks a football noggin, which is why he is perfect for that role, run as fast as you can, get to the line, put the ball in, kushty.

That was when we were playing 4231, with gabby, nzog and weimann across the pitch behind Benteke.

I agree that at times it may be too attacking but with Weimann and Bannan in particular able to play in the wide roles but also willing to graft it can be a 4411 when we need to defend.  We still need a better option in central midfield though but if we're going to have a glaring hole in the middle of the park I'd at least like us to pin the opposition full backs down by having a threat out wide.

[Monty]

Of course he'll say the system was irrelevant, but if it really is he wouldn't have changed it. That's what TSM would do: if things were going wrong he'd shout and make like-for-like substitutions. Lambert changing the system so much from game to game and from half to half is enough to know that he's just covering his own arse in the interview there.

I agree with everyone else though. The three at the back experiment worked well against Liverpool when it was backs-to-the-wall and against the likes of Stoke, where even though we didn't win that game I thought we played well. However, in most games it won't work because it not only gives up on width, it actually gives us nothing in the centre either because we have one outfield player at each end of the pitch hanging around doing nothing.

[tomd2103]

Agree with the need to play 4-2-3-1.  The players looked so much more comfortable in that formation last night and some of our best performances have happened when we have been set up that way.  As proven again last night though, Bannan can't play in one of the defensive midfield roles and would be better off in an advanced position.  If we aren't going to bring anyone in then move Clark into midfield to at least give us a bit of a physical presence in there.  Warnock did OK when he was moved into there last season and would be worth another go, but it looks like he is on his way.

We need to settle on a formation now and stick with it for the rest of the season.  The constant changes surely cannot be helping us.

   

[Merv]

4-3-3  or 4-3-1-2 from now on please.

That'll do for me. And I think the variance between the two comes into play whether we play Gabby or N'Zogbia. When it's Gabby, it's a 4-3-3 with a midfield three and GA, AW and CB, when we go with CNZ it's him ahead of three midfielders in that free role with AW and CB as the front two.

[cdward]

Another vote for 4-2-3-1 for me.
Get a settled back four and stick with them, injuries allowing.
We have options for the 2 defensive midfielders - Delph, Bannan, KEA, Holman, Westwood, Herd.
The attacking midfield has options with Ireland and Albrighton, and the likes of Weimann, CNZ and Gabby can play anywhere in the attacking 5.
Again, maybe a bit too attack minded, but i would rather see us relegated playing like we did second half yesterday, than playing TSM at Spurs brand of football.
As others have said, pick a system and stick with it, at least the players know what position they are supposed to be in.
Make substitutions to freshen it up.

[royvilla949]

After 5 minutes you could see Newcastle's strategy. Get their wide forwards to push up on Bennett and Lowton, thus stopping them from pushing forward. This meant, everytime Krul had the ball he could throw it out to the full back unchallenged. As soon as Bannan or Westwood went to close down a gap was left in the middle that was exposed. Lambert could have changed this after 5 minutes without even making a substitution.

He could have done two things:

Move Clark to LB, Bennett to LM and N'Zogbia to RM
Move Clark to CM/DM Bannan to LM and N'Zogbia to RM

He did nothing until a few moments before Newcastle's 2nd goal. He'd gone 4-4-2 but N'Zogbia wasn't in position to play RM, and was still standing in the position to support Bent in the middle of the pitch thus leaving the area where Cabaye scored Villa player free.

Credit to Lambert for changing it at half time, but he should have done it earlier. I would like to see our possession stats for the 1st half an hour. If we had the ball for more than 40% of the time I would be surprised. I understand the tension, the need for keeping it tight but the starting formation really didn't help us at all last night.

I think the players HAVE got the fight for the scrap, I just don't think they have the right degree of coaching, leadership and ability to see it through.

iwould not put bennet in any team

[royvilla949]

all this talk about tatics and such, the manager is not good enough and we must eccept the fact he has to go

[tomd2103]

Another vote for 4-2-3-1 for me.
Get a settled back four and stick with them, injuries allowing.
We have options for the 2 defensive midfielders - Delph, Bannan, KEA, Holman, Westwood, Herd.
The attacking midfield has options with Ireland and Albrighton, and the likes of Weimann, CNZ and Gabby can play anywhere in the attacking 5.
Again, maybe a bit too attack minded, but i would rather see us relegated playing like we did second half yesterday, than playing TSM at Spurs brand of football.
As others have said, pick a system and stick with it, at least the players know what position they are supposed to be in.
Make substitutions to freshen it up.

The thing about that system is that it is quite easy to drop the two wide players a bit deeper and play a 4-5-1 if needs be. 

[mal]

There is a gaping hole in the middle of our team.

I wish Lambert and Lerner would just plug it.

It would ease the pressur eon our defence and solidy the whole unit.

The worst thing about that gaping hole is that it is Clark-shaped.  Unless of course you mean 'gaping whole'...

[NiiLamptey]

Being a good Forumer, I searched for an old topic to bring back to life...

Its 2013/2014 season, we have a new squad with new players and I think we have opportunities to try new formations...

Last season it may not have worked but I would love to see us play a 3 2 2 1 2 formation...


----------------Guzan---------------
-----Baker----Vlaar----Clarke----
Bacuna------------------------Luna
---------Delph----Westwood------
-------------Wiemann--------------
--------Gabby----Benteke---------

Then we have options to rotate in Kozak, NZogbia, helenius, bowery

[supertom]

Being a good Forumer, I searched for an old topic to bring back to life...

Its 2013/2014 season, we have a new squad with new players and I think we have opportunities to try new formations...

Last season it may not have worked but I would love to see us play a 3 2 2 1 2 formation...


----------------Guzan---------------
-----Baker----Vlaar----Clarke----
Bacuna------------------------Luna
---------Delph----Westwood------
-------------Wiemann--------------
--------Gabby----Benteke---------

Then we have options to rotate in Kozak, NZogbia, helenius, bowery

In theory that formation could work. I would play Sylla instead of Westwood though. For me, Weimann can't play that role as the advanced mid. Essentially that formation is what we played early on under Gregory. It was effective because we had Boateng and Tayls providing plenty of grit and energy in midfield, with Merson providing that bit of class as the attacking mid.

For me it's an option, IF we buy a decent number 10 in Jan. I think you'd have to play Delph and Sylla as the two CM's because otherwise Westwood or KEA get overrun too easily.

But looking at the earlier sections of this thread it's interesting to note how many complaints are re-emerging again from 10 months ago. This was shortly before we had Sylla in the side and started to pick up decent results when we needed them. We've definitely regressed tactically again, particularly in an offensive sense. Does Lambert learn from his mistakes? It disappoints me that he's almost reverting back to certain systems that didn't work last season, put continue not to work despite 7 new players. And honestly, when's he going to finally realise that you have to play with width? Very few teams play so narrow, unless they're loaded with technically gifted players.

[Dave Clark Five]

The W formation is the only one not mentioned so far. How would we get on trying to put a team together like that?
                           GK
               RB                    LB

        RH              CH                LH

OR           IR        CF       IL             OL

[NiiLamptey]

Being a good Forumer, I searched for an old topic to bring back to life...

Its 2013/2014 season, we have a new squad with new players and I think we have opportunities to try new formations...

Last season it may not have worked but I would love to see us play a 3 2 2 1 2 formation...


----------------Guzan---------------
-----Baker----Vlaar----Clarke----
Bacuna------------------------Luna
---------Delph----Westwood------
-------------Wiemann--------------
--------Gabby----Benteke---------

Then we have options to rotate in Kozak, NZogbia, helenius, bowery

In theory that formation could work. I would play Sylla instead of Westwood though. For me, Weimann can't play that role as the advanced mid. Essentially that formation is what we played early on under Gregory. It was effective because we had Boateng and Tayls providing plenty of grit and energy in midfield, with Merson providing that bit of class as the attacking mid.

For me it's an option, IF we buy a decent number 10 in Jan. I think you'd have to play Delph and Sylla as the two CM's because otherwise Westwood or KEA get overrun too easily.

But looking at the earlier sections of this thread it's interesting to note how many complaints are re-emerging again from 10 months ago. This was shortly before we had Sylla in the side and started to pick up decent results when we needed them. We've definitely regressed tactically again, particularly in an offensive sense. Does Lambert learn from his mistakes? It disappoints me that he's almost reverting back to certain systems that didn't work last season, put continue not to work despite 7 new players. And honestly, when's he going to finally realise that you have to play with width? Very few teams play so narrow, unless they're loaded with technically gifted players.

NZogbia whould be able to play the role when he is back!