6 Nations 2013

[Jon Crofts]

Starts Saturday with Wales v Ireland in Cardiff at 1:30, England v Jocks at Twickenham at 4 & Sundays game sees Italy take on France in Rome.

Who's your favourites for the trophy this year & for the wooden spoon?

Off the back of Englands win v the All Blacks I guess many will put England at the head of the pack, personally I'd put France there, just, with Scotland very much the wooden spoon team.

[nigel]

Wales are still strong, they have to travel to France, but have England & Ireland at home.
France have to travel to Twickers.
Ireland have both England & France at home.

Let's not forget that, on their day, both Scotland & Italy have the capability to upset a team.

I can see this being one of the tightest for years.

[lovejoy]

France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy

England will struggle in Dublin.
Let's look at the bigger picture, as long as some young players get blooded in, not winning the 6N wont be a disaster.

[nigel]

France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy

England will struggle in Dublin.
Let's look at the bigger picture, as long as some young players get blooded in, not winning the 6N wont be a disaster.

Yes, the World Cup 2015 build up starts here.

[paul_e]

I think there's 3 pairs this year

England and France 1-2
Ireland and Wales 3-4
Scotland and Italy 5-6

I'll go

England
France
Ireland
Wales
Italy
Scotland

At club level the french sides look strong, but, much like in England, the best teams have lots of foreign players and it's those players who've been driving them on, for example the best player in France (Stefon Armitage is probably the form back row in europe right now) should be appearing for us but isn't going to feature in the tournament because we won't pick him.  Contrast that with the england players, who in general have been in great form the last few weeks at club level and they have a big result from the autumn to take confidence from.

Ireland look a lot like england did after 2003, lots of good players getting old together and very little experience coming up behind them, I think they may have a few fairly barren years on the horizon, aside from the experience thing, BoD isn't the player he was and their performances have been tied to his for 10years.

I still think England have some problems.  I still think Farrell is too 1-dimensional, the midfield is totally reliant on Manu's power and I'm still not convinced that picking 2 full backs is a good idea but despite all that we have the best front 5 in the 6N by a distance, have a dynamic 8 (and an even better one behind him) and have the strongest set of 6s in world rugby (Wood is the best 6 in the world if he can stay fit, Croft from the bench is explosive and game changing and if either are unavailable we have Johnson, Lawes and Launchbury in the squad).  7 is my only concern in the pack, Robshaw is decent but he's having his weaknesses covered by Dan Cole at the minute

[paul_e]

France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy

England will struggle in Dublin.
Let's look at the bigger picture, as long as some young players get blooded in, not winning the 6N wont be a disaster.

Yes, the World Cup 2015 build up starts here.

Agree totally, Game time for Joseph and Kvesic along with at least a few showings of Lawes and Launchbury as a pairing should be required.  I wish we'd taken Billy Vunipola ahead of Waldrom as well so he could have a few run outs.

[nigel]

Interesting, the 2 full backs, Paul.
It might prove to be an inspirational tactic.
If you remember, when we won the World Cup we played 2 fly halves (Wilkinson & Catt). Both could also play inside centre, and both were competent kicking from hand.
Wilkinson remarked how much pressure Catt took off him.

[paul_e]

Interesting, the 2 full backs, Paul.
It might prove to be an inspirational tactic.
If you remember, when we won the World Cup we played 2 fly halves (Wilkinson & Catt). Both could also play inside centre, and both were competent kicking from hand.
Wilkinson remarked how much pressure Catt took off him.

but that's entirely the problem I see with 2 full backs, our game at the time was built around wilkinson, so a 2nd fly half was to stop him being targeted so much and worked well.  As far as I can tell the 2 full backs are to allow Goode to step into midfield and be our creative influence, but the cost is that Brown/Foden have to play on the wing and neither is entirely comfortable there.  Ashton is the perfect modern winger (ignore his lack of tries, that's becuase of the barritt/manu pairing), he can drift inside, he looks to support his man, etc.  By not picking a genuine winger on the other side we lose the chance to have a similar threat all over the field.

[lovejoy]

Indeed. That Mike Brown is picked as a winger ahead or Charlie Sharples is an utter disgrace.

[tomd2103]

As someone with Welsh parents, I follow Welsh rugby and although the domestic game is in turmoil in the principality, I think they have more than enough to challenge for the title this year.  They have got a few absentees up front (especially in the second row), but have a very powerful back division. 

Should be a good tournament this year. 

[paul_e]

Indeed. That Mike Brown is picked as a winger ahead or Charlie Sharples is an utter disgrace.

He's kind of shown his hand with what he wants form wingers now though by picking Strettle and Monye, 2 who will work hard and are fairly solid defensively but offer very little going forward.  It all comes back to a massive over reliance on the pack and Manu's power being our game changers.  The backs, as a group, are incredibly conservative/defensive.  Christian Wade has been the most destructive winger in the country for 2 years but can't get a look in.  Burns is the most dynamic 10 we've seen but Farrell is ahead of him because he tackles well.  Barritt offers very little in attack but he's the best tackler in europe (in the centres) and does the dirty work on the floor as well as any 7.

You can't fault him that it's been a reasonably successful approach but I just don't think you can win a world cup like that.  He needs to start using these more creative options (Burns, Twelvetrees, Wade, maybe Trinder as well) even if only to come off the bench to change things up.

[paul_e]

As someone with Welsh parents, I follow Welsh rugby and although the domestic game is in turmoil in the principality, I think they have more than enough to challenge for the title this year.  They have got a few absentees up front (especially in the second row), but have a very powerful back division. 

Should be a good tournament this year. 

None of them are showing any great form though, and more importantly their pack is very weak.  The old adage of 'forwards win you games, backs decide by how many' is particularly true for Welsh rugby at the minute.  I agree they have a lot of firepowerm, which will see them beat Scotland and Italy but I think England and France will dominate them up front and Ireland will have enough strength defensively to stop them.

[PaulWinch again]

We really need to carry on where we left off from the New Zealand game, it's all about progression.

[paul_e]

We really need to carry on where we left off from the New Zealand game, it's all about progression.

Given the news this afternoon that Manu is out for the scotland match that's not really an option.

For what it's worth I'd go with Twelvetrees inside and move Barritt out one.  I do worry how he'll approach the game now though, my big concern being he'll go flood at 10 and push farrell to 12.

[nigel]

We really need to carry on where we left off from the New Zealand game, it's all about progression.

Given the news this afternoon that Manu is out for the scotland match that's not really an option.

For what it's worth I'd go with Twelvetrees inside and move Barritt out one.  I do worry how he'll approach the game now though, my big concern being he'll go flood at 10 and push farrell to 12.

Would that really be a bad thing, though, Paul?
It just might be as productive as the Wilkinson & Catt partnership.

I do see your concerns regarding the two full back thing, though. I have to admit that I'm a bit out on the players at the moment, so I will defer to your, obvious, knowledge of players.
I prefer Foden at full back, but, as mentioned, I don't really know enough about the others