What can we do about it?

[Monty]

The current situation is a unique crisis in the history of the club. We've been down before, we've been rubbish before, but the peculiarly suicidal plunge to relegation in the season when, because of TV money, you just do not wanted to be relegated is new. Whatever we feel about the manager, I think most of us recognise that the problem is right at the top: Lerner was once a benevolent fool, now the benevolence has dried up and now we're left with the fool, and his decision to surround himself with his friends rather than people who either know the club, the game or both, is cronyism and reminiscent of a child playing with his toy.

The club is in a rut. If the Premier League is a vaguely poncy minimalist living room then we're just that stained old armchair that everyone means to throw out but hasn't brought themselves to - yet. If you look at the way clubs in the Premier League are run now, there are some impressive models there: Southampton and Wigan may go down, but they have a clear footballing vision which should help them long term; Fulham kept themselves afloat for long enough and now absolutely fulfil their function, which is to stay in the Premier League and play football entertaining enough for their fans; even Newcastle, realising they're in trouble, have a terrific scouting system to fall back on and will probably be fine; most galling, Boggies have been through three managers in two years but have a stable footballing boardroom which keeps them on the right track; Swansea are amazing, a fan-run mini-Barcelona who seem to exemplify the new breed of top-flight club.

By comparison, we are a floundering, rudderless mess, veering wildly from extreme to extreme, from paying Emile Heskey £65k a week to possibly not signing anyone in our direst need in many years, from Houllier trying to build the club on footballing principles to McLeish's defensive nihilism and back again to Lambert, who is like a nicer but frankly less clued-up Houllier. All this is ultimately the fault of the ownership, and the club is heading for oblivion with him in charge. We know this. The question is: what do we can about it? Do we organise protests? Would that help, or would that just add to the malaise around the club and just help ensure our relegation? Do we wait until the summer, or would that be too late?

This is our club they're destroying. We protested Doug for less than this. 'Fan action' has been known to fail embarrassingly, but a couple of the clubs mentioned above are where they are because of fan intervention. I don't know if there is anything we can do, but if there is, shouldn't we try?

[Dave Clark Five]

All you can do is keep taking the tablets.
In no other part of life would people put up with what we have had to. True, we can't all win, but at least we can look like we fucking want to.

[jonzy85]

No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.

Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).

[pauliewalnuts]

Lerner's biggest fault has been in the people he brought in to run the club.

There needs to be someone in the upper management who has the view of maintaining the squad as the club's main asset. Someone who, if it came to selling our best players, would take the longer term view of how to reinvest that money to keep value in the squad. That has been massively missing. How many other clubs have watched expensive players on long, lucrative contracts, contribute next to nothing and then walk away for nothing like we have, costing us tens of millions of pounds?

How come Spurs and Everton sell their best players but manage to invest money wisely and keep a balanced, decent squad, but we can't?

Then there is the lack of continuity in the manager position.

Lambert has been poor, but appointing him was not the pivotal moment. That was when Houllier went. Finally, we'd started to achieve some continuity, the football was improving, and we finished a respectable (somewhat flattering) ninth. That was the point at which to make a really clever appointment to continue the improvement.

At that point, it was vital to make the right appointment. They needed to keep calm, take advice (from people with our best interests at heart, not other PL managers) and select the right man. Instead we had a farcical mess of getting made to look like chumps by Dave Whelan, having it look like the fans got Lerner to cancel an interview with McLaren, and pointless statements on the OS saying "we're looking for a manager".

At the end of it, we'd grumbled when he looked at Martinez, but he goes and does the utterly, utterly stupid thing of talking to McLeish.

Even if you leave aside the obvious points about McLeish's record, where on earth is the continuity, the joined-up thinking that has you going after Martinez with his style of football one day, then to the diametric opposite the next?  They didn't listen, they stubbornly thought our moaning was all about him having been at Blues, and what happened? It was an utter disaster.

I genuinely think, if three years ago, Lerner had been possessed by a malevolent force and thought, "I'm going to fuck this club up, make appointments that run it into the ground", it couldn't have panned out any worse than it has with him actually "trying his best".

As someone said to me earlier, and I am sure he won't mind me repeating it here:

Manchester City's CEO came from Barcelona.
Arsenal's came from the MLS.
Chelsea's came from Umbro.
Ours came from a call centre in Chester.

Unfortunately, until he starts to appoint people with football knowledge and nous, and stops relying on his network of friends (Krulak, Faulkner), then we are always going to be swimming against the current.

There is nothing we can do to change that. We can't force him to sell. We can't force a buyer to magically appear.

We are in huge amounts of debt and looking like losing our top flight status. Who is going to want to buy a basket case of a club like us right now?

[royvilla949]

change the manager while the transfare window is still open give new bloke a chance to get some experience players in

[Richard E]

Short answer - as fans, literally nothing. I don't want to be defeatist but the fans gave 100% last night and it still made no difference. We don't pick the team, we don't take training, we don't set the budgets. If we protest the management will either ignore us or mouth empty platitudes.

[mattjpa]

No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.

Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).

How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.

[Villadroid]

What can we do?

Nothing!

It is not impossible to make the argument that every time the fans do something they make matters worse.

When the fans organised and were led by Buck Chinn, all it achieved was to open the way for Doug Ellis to get involved, and once he'd got his feet under the table, all the promises of fans on the board were forgotten.

Further fan action led to the ousting of Ellis and prompted new owner Lerner to waste millions trying to win over the fans he assumed were hostile.

The fans collectively vetoed the employment of Steve McClaren as manager and the club in desperation hired Alex McLeish.

The fans protested against McLeish and he was sacked after surviving relegation and they endorsed the hiring of Paul Lambert and accepted the plan to downgrade the squad.

So based on that, I think the fans have a pretty lousy track-record and should leave things well alone.

[pauliewalnuts]

Further fan action led to the ousting of Ellis and prompted new owner Lerner to waste millions trying to win over the fans he assumed were hostile.

With all due respect, most of that post is utterly untrue, particularly this bit.

I certainly don't recall Ellis ever bending to fan action, and certainly not to sell up. He sold up when it suited him, and not a minute earlier.

As for Lerner spending millions to win over fans he assumed were hostile - he'd have seen within a few days that he was worshipped - as he continued to be so for two or three years.

Bending the facts to suit your argument - and that's without even touching the suggestion that it was fans who "vetoed" McClaren and in some way forced them to get McLeish.

I also don't see how the fans in some way endorsed or accepted a plan to downgrade the squad because we rated Lambert.

Do you think there was a possible managerial appointment which wouldn't involve austerity?

[levico]

No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.

Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).

How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.

I absolutely agree. Lerner and Faulkner could ignore a media letter but that would damage their reputation even more. They would have to respond or everyone would make their own mind up over what's going on.

[Irish villain]

None of the fuckwits running the club deserve the support they get. I had hairs on the back when I heard the Holte.

Then I saw that second half and realsied none of them deserved that support or deserved to even wear the shirt.

The club is being destroyed.

[danlanza]

No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.

Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).

How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.

Lerner and Faulkner do not give two hoots for the fans. Take your free flag and be quiet. Says it all to me.

[ozzjim]

Lerner's biggest fault has been in the people he brought in to run the club.

There needs to be someone in the upper management who has the view of maintaining the squad as the club's main asset. Someone who, if it came to selling our best players, would take the longer term view of how to reinvest that money to keep value in the squad. That has been massively missing. How many other clubs have watched expensive players on long, lucrative contracts, contribute next to nothing and then walk away for nothing like we have, costing us tens of millions of pounds?

How come Spurs and Everton sell their best players but manage to invest money wisely and keep a balanced, decent squad, but we can't?

Then there is the lack of continuity in the manager position.

Lambert has been poor, but appointing him was not the pivotal moment. That was when Houllier went. Finally, we'd started to achieve some continuity, the football was improving, and we finished a respectable (somewhat flattering) ninth. That was the point at which to make a really clever appointment to continue the improvement.

At that point, it was vital to make the right appointment. They needed to keep calm, take advice (from people with our best interests at heart, not other PL managers) and select the right man. Instead we had a farcical mess of getting made to look like chumps by Dave Whelan, having it look like the fans got Lerner to cancel an interview with McLaren, and pointless statements on the OS saying "we're looking for a manager".

At the end of it, we'd grumbled when he looked at Martinez, but he goes and does the utterly, utterly stupid thing of talking to McLeish.

Even if you leave aside the obvious points about McLeish's record, where on earth is the continuity, the joined-up thinking that has you going after Martinez with his style of football one day, then to the diametric opposite the next?  They didn't listen, they stubbornly thought our moaning was all about him having been at Blues, and what happened? It was an utter disaster.

I genuinely think, if three years ago, Lerner had been possessed by a malevolent force and thought, "I'm going to fuck this club up, make appointments that run it into the ground", it couldn't have panned out any worse than it has with him actually "trying his best".

As someone said to me earlier, and I am sure he won't mind me repeating it here:

Manchester City's CEO came from Barcelona.
Arsenal's came from the MLS.
Chelsea's came from Umbro.
Ours came from a call centre in Chester.

Unfortunately, until he starts to appoint people with football knowledge and nous, and stops relying on his network of friends (Krulak, Faulkner), then we are always going to be swimming against the current.

There is nothing we can do to change that. We can't force him to sell. We can't force a buyer to magically appear.

We are in huge amounts of debt and looking like losing our top flight status. Who is going to want to buy a basket case of a club like us right now?

Sad. And very true.

There is just no fucking hope anymore. Nothing.

I have had enough of it all and being depressed about it.

[andyh]

When the owner cannot even be bothered to turn up for a cup semi final, and has no plans to visit in the near future (according to the BBC), I reckon the tone is set.
 

[Dave Clark Five]

No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.

Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).

How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.

Lerner and Faulkner do not give two hoots for the fans. Take your free flag and be quiet. Says it all to me.

From what I could see, more people than not left their free flag behind.