Premier League cost controls

[tomd2103]

Definitely would be more interesting if things went the way of the NFL but they'd never do that. Things are basically going to have break-even "starting now" so clubs like City are surely waaaaay ahead of the game.

NFL is a little different as there no other real leagues in that sport.  If the Premier League were to impose a salary cap, the top players would just move to another league.  Interest in the Premiership would wane, the money would go out of it and we would be back to how football was in this country in the mid to late 80's.   

[dave.woodhall]

Definitely would be more interesting if things went the way of the NFL but they'd never do that. Things are basically going to have break-even "starting now" so clubs like City are surely waaaaay ahead of the game.

NFL is a little different as there no other real leagues in that sport.  If the Premier League were to impose a salary cap, the top players would just move to another league.  Interest in the Premiership would wane, the money would go out of it and we would be back to how football was in this country in the mid to late 80's.   

I could live with that.

[Breezeblock]

 

Definitely would be more interesting if things went the way of the NFL but they'd never do that. Things are basically going to have break-even "starting now" so clubs like City are surely waaaaay ahead of the game.

NFL is a little different as there no other real leagues in that sport.  If the Premier League were to impose a salary cap, the top players would just move to another league.  Interest in the Premiership would wane, the money would go out of it and we would be back to how football was in this country in the mid to late 80's.   

...and you're saying that like its a bad thing

[fredm]

As others have said it's a case of the current elite pulling up the drawbridge behind them.   Even if someone tempts the Sultan of Brunei or Bill Gates into taking them over, the new rules will prevent him funding a rise to the top a la Chelsea, Man City, PSG, etc.  I suppose the big loss makers like Chelsea and Citeh may have to find a way to break even, but I'm sure they'll wangle it somehow. The closed shop idea was always the intention of that so-called G14 group of clubs back in the 90s and they are pretty much there now.  Which makes it surprising that so many "making up the numbers" clubs are in favour.    Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas.   

I don't think they are voting for Christmas.  I think those clubs who will be in the 8 - 16 position range of the Premier League are quite happy to continue the status quo and keep feeding themselves very nicely out of the trough that is filled with Sky and all the other TV income etc.

[Ad@m]

As others have said it's a case of the current elite pulling up the drawbridge behind them.   Even if someone tempts the Sultan of Brunei or Bill Gates into taking them over, the new rules will prevent him funding a rise to the top a la Chelsea, Man City, PSG, etc.  I suppose the big loss makers like Chelsea and Citeh may have to find a way to break even, but I'm sure they'll wangle it somehow. The closed shop idea was always the intention of that so-called G14 group of clubs back in the 90s and they are pretty much there now.  Which makes it surprising that so many "making up the numbers" clubs are in favour.    Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas.   

I don't think they are voting for Christmas.  I think those clubs who will be in the 8 - 16 position range of the Premier League are quite happy to continue the status quo and keep feeding themselves very nicely out of the trough that is filled with Sky and all the other TV income etc.

Exactly.

Sadly, Premier League football for the majority of clubs stopped being about winning things when finishing 4th was seen as the most important 'achievement' there is.

[CJ]

Definitely would be more interesting if things went the way of the NFL but they'd never do that. Things are basically going to have break-even "starting now" so clubs like City are surely waaaaay ahead of the game.

NFL is a little different as there no other real leagues in that sport.  If the Premier League were to impose a salary cap, the top players would just move to another league.  Interest in the Premiership would wane, the money would go out of it and we would be back to how football was in this country in the mid to late 80's.   

Result! I think it could well happen anyway - the current top 4 will be consolidated by the FFP rules and I think the next logical step would be the formation of a breakaway European league. Platini is already talking about a 64 team "Champions" league (4th place qualifying as a 'Champion' is pretty ironic - 7th place is just ridiculous) and scrapping the Europa League - which itself has been modified from the UEFA/Inter-Cities Fairs Cup - smoothing the path for a single European competition as a precursor for an 'elite' European League. The money barons clubs will fuck off to that league and the rest of us can get on with playing football with a pretty even chance of actually winning something. 

[PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt]

The solution is simple. Clubs can only register a minimum of 18 players, then can only have 3 players under 21 they can call upon. This would stop the player hogging and larger size squads. If Man City turn up to Villa Park with only 13 fit players then even better. They would have to play their Development squad kids to make up the squad. 

[tomd2103]

Definitely would be more interesting if things went the way of the NFL but they'd never do that. Things are basically going to have break-even "starting now" so clubs like City are surely waaaaay ahead of the game.

NFL is a little different as there no other real leagues in that sport.  If the Premier League were to impose a salary cap, the top players would just move to another league.  Interest in the Premiership would wane, the money would go out of it and we would be back to how football was in this country in the mid to late 80's.   

Result! I think it could well happen anyway - the current top 4 will be consolidated by the FFP rules and I think the next logical step would be the formation of a breakaway European league. Platini is already talking about a 64 team "Champions" league (4th place qualifying as a 'Champion' is pretty ironic - 7th place is just ridiculous) and scrapping the Europa League - which itself has been modified from the UEFA/Inter-Cities Fairs Cup - smoothing the path for a single European competition as a precursor for an 'elite' European League. The money barons clubs will fuck off to that league and the rest of us can get on with playing football with a pretty even chance of actually winning something.

Don't get me wrong, it is something I wouldn't mind seeing, but I just can't see the Premier League ever agreeing to something that will threaten the current status quo. 

I personally wouldn't care less if the two Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal (maybe even Liverpool) swanned off into some European Super League, as I find the media's infatuation with them increasingly frustrating.  If that were to happen, then I think an expanded Champions League would see automatic entry for teams in a new super league with a couple of teams qualifying from each country as well.

[paul_e]

The problem is, and unfortunately always will be now, that you can't draw a line a in the sand and say 'you can spend this much on fees, wages, etc' because if you set that figure at a level attainable by, for example, reading, then Man utd, Man City, Chelsea, etc will all have a massive surplus of cash (and wage expenditure for them would be far beyond the limit), but setting the bar too high does nothing to close the gap between the top and the bottom.  Having it as based on turnover is similar, it does nothing to increase competition.

I guess you could remove club involvement in the academy system and have a 'draft' (which is the main reason american football works) but, given the number of leagues and teams involved, trying to manage a system like that would be next to impossible.

The whole thing has a feel of closing the stable door after the horse has gone, to an extent football needs to implode and be forced to rebuild from scratch but there's too much money and interest for that to happen at the minute.

[ktvillan]

As others have said it's a case of the current elite pulling up the drawbridge behind them.   Even if someone tempts the Sultan of Brunei or Bill Gates into taking them over, the new rules will prevent him funding a rise to the top a la Chelsea, Man City, PSG, etc.  I suppose the big loss makers like Chelsea and Citeh may have to find a way to break even, but I'm sure they'll wangle it somehow. The closed shop idea was always the intention of that so-called G14 group of clubs back in the 90s and they are pretty much there now.  Which makes it surprising that so many "making up the numbers" clubs are in favour.    Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas.   

I don't think they are voting for Christmas.  I think those clubs who will be in the 8 - 16 position range of the Premier League are quite happy to continue the status quo and keep feeding themselves very nicely out of the trough that is filled with Sky and all the other TV income etc.

Exactly.

Sadly, Premier League football for the majority of clubs stopped being about winning things when finishing 4th was seen as the most important 'achievement' there is.

I'm not so sure.  Up to now there was always the hope, however vague, that a sugar daddy might come along and propel a middling club into the top echelons.   Or that it could be achieved by persistent good husbandry and clever investment in a mix of established players and younger or lesser know players, as Wenger did initially, and as Spurs have, to an extent,  done more recently.  I think that hope could be more or less extinguished and the top 3-4 will be even more set in stone than it has been the last 10 years.  Without hope of ever reaching the top, I can see real supporters starting to get bored with the sport, even if the clubs are content to count the cash and make up the numbers.   And while there is still relegation no club outside that elite can afford to feel comfortable just being in the PL.

[Astral Weeks]

Definitely would be more interesting if things went the way of the NFL but they'd never do that. Things are basically going to have break-even "starting now" so clubs like City are surely waaaaay ahead of the game.

NFL is a little different as there no other real leagues in that sport.  If the Premier League were to impose a salary cap, the top players would just move to another league.  Interest in the Premiership would wane, the money would go out of it and we would be back to how football was in this country in the mid to late 80's.   

Result! I think it could well happen anyway - the current top 4 will be consolidated by the FFP rules and I think the next logical step would be the formation of a breakaway European league. Platini is already talking about a 64 team "Champions" league (4th place qualifying as a 'Champion' is pretty ironic - 7th place is just ridiculous) and scrapping the Europa League - which itself has been modified from the UEFA/Inter-Cities Fairs Cup - smoothing the path for a single European competition as a precursor for an 'elite' European League. The money barons clubs will fuck off to that league and the rest of us can get on with playing football with a pretty even chance of actually winning something.

Don't get me wrong, it is something I wouldn't mind seeing, but I just can't see the Premier League ever agreeing to something that will threaten the current status quo. 

I personally wouldn't care less if the two Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal (maybe even Liverpool) swanned off into some European Super League, as I find the media's infatuation with them increasingly frustrating.  If that were to happen, then I think an expanded Champions League would see automatic entry for teams in a new super league with a couple of teams qualifying from each country as well.

Unfortunately for your theory, I don't think that if those clubs did swan off into a European super league, it would stop the media writing about them. I think they might be ALL they ever wrote about.

[tomd2103]

As others have said it's a case of the current elite pulling up the drawbridge behind them.   Even if someone tempts the Sultan of Brunei or Bill Gates into taking them over, the new rules will prevent him funding a rise to the top a la Chelsea, Man City, PSG, etc.  I suppose the big loss makers like Chelsea and Citeh may have to find a way to break even, but I'm sure they'll wangle it somehow. The closed shop idea was always the intention of that so-called G14 group of clubs back in the 90s and they are pretty much there now.  Which makes it surprising that so many "making up the numbers" clubs are in favour.    Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas.   

I don't think they are voting for Christmas.  I think those clubs who will be in the 8 - 16 position range of the Premier League are quite happy to continue the status quo and keep feeding themselves very nicely out of the trough that is filled with Sky and all the other TV income etc.

Exactly.

Sadly, Premier League football for the majority of clubs stopped being about winning things when finishing 4th was seen as the most important 'achievement' there is.

I think that hope could be more or less extinguished and the top 3-4 will be even more set in stone than it has been the last 10 years. 

I've long thought that the Champions League qualification needs altering to make it less of a closed shop (although I'm not sure if there are any UEFA rules that forbid this).  I have no qualms with the top two teams qualifying, but find it slightly irritating that finishing 3rd and 4th is seen as some great achievement.  Some sort of play off for the final two places would mix things up a little as would a guaranteed place for the FA Cup winners. 

[tomd2103]

Definitely would be more interesting if things went the way of the NFL but they'd never do that. Things are basically going to have break-even "starting now" so clubs like City are surely waaaaay ahead of the game.

NFL is a little different as there no other real leagues in that sport.  If the Premier League were to impose a salary cap, the top players would just move to another league.  Interest in the Premiership would wane, the money would go out of it and we would be back to how football was in this country in the mid to late 80's.   

Result! I think it could well happen anyway - the current top 4 will be consolidated by the FFP rules and I think the next logical step would be the formation of a breakaway European league. Platini is already talking about a 64 team "Champions" league (4th place qualifying as a 'Champion' is pretty ironic - 7th place is just ridiculous) and scrapping the Europa League - which itself has been modified from the UEFA/Inter-Cities Fairs Cup - smoothing the path for a single European competition as a precursor for an 'elite' European League. The money barons clubs will fuck off to that league and the rest of us can get on with playing football with a pretty even chance of actually winning something.

Don't get me wrong, it is something I wouldn't mind seeing, but I just can't see the Premier League ever agreeing to something that will threaten the current status quo. 

I personally wouldn't care less if the two Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal (maybe even Liverpool) swanned off into some European Super League, as I find the media's infatuation with them increasingly frustrating.  If that were to happen, then I think an expanded Champions League would see automatic entry for teams in a new super league with a couple of teams qualifying from each country as well.

Unfortunately for your theory, I don't think that if those clubs did swan off into a European super league, it would stop the media writing about them. I think they might be ALL they ever wrote about.

While the media and the likes of Neville and Hansen would be pontificating about "United" and "City", the English league would have its own coverage, maybe even a show featuring Manish and Leroy Rosenoir.  On second thoughts!!

[paul_e]

I personally wouldn't care less if the two Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal (maybe even Liverpool) swanned off into some European Super League, as I find the media's infatuation with them increasingly frustrating.  If that were to happen, then I think an expanded Champions League would see automatic entry for teams in a new super league with a couple of teams qualifying from each country as well.

I think this would have happened a few years ago if the logistics of it weren't so difficult.  Those clubs would want to play 40-50 games a year still so it would have to be a full league program, meaning you couldn't really have people qualifying for it.

If it were to happen I think you'd see 2 competitions, a league and a cup, with the cup being the 1 that domestic teams can qualify for and the league being a closed shop, but with maybe an element of the clubs being able to vote sides in and out (but only from within the same domestic league), I think all the power would be with the clubs though.

[tomd2103]

I personally wouldn't care less if the two Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal (maybe even Liverpool) swanned off into some European Super League, as I find the media's infatuation with them increasingly frustrating.  If that were to happen, then I think an expanded Champions League would see automatic entry for teams in a new super league with a couple of teams qualifying from each country as well.

I think this would have happened a few years ago if the logistics of it weren't so difficult.  Those clubs would want to play 40-50 games a year still so it would have to be a full league program, meaning you couldn't really have people qualifying for it.

If it were to happen I think you'd see 2 competitions, a league and a cup, with the cup being the 1 that domestic teams can qualify for and the league being a closed shop, but with maybe an element of the clubs being able to vote sides in and out (but only from within the same domestic league), I think all the power would be with the clubs though.

I might not have been very clear in my post, but that is what I meant.  A seperate Super League and then the Champions League as a cup competition involving the Super League clubs and clubs from domestic leagues.  As for the part about voting teams in and out, teams would be clamouring to join so the League would probably expand over the years with teams being voted in and a few divisions being established.