Barry Bannan-What does he do ?

[Drummond]

Surprise surprise I liked and agree with Bren's post.

Unfortunately Risso, we've had far too many of the Alan Hutton end of the scale of late. The Div 3 players you speak of are few and far between, one is starting to play more regularly and being seen to improve, the other has hardly played but is being judged by some as not  worthy.

The younger players appear to be trying and to have the capacity to learn and improve.

[tomd2103]

Surprise surprise I liked and agree with Bren's post.

Unfortunately Risso, we've had far too many of the Alan Hutton end of the scale of late. The Div 3 players you speak of are few and far between, one is starting to play more regularly and being seen to improve, the other has hardly played but is being judged by some as not  worthy.

The younger players appear to be trying and to have the capacity to learn and improve.

Some of them have played fairly regularly for the best part of two seasons now and maybe Clark aside (though he still struggles with the physical side of the game), I can't say that any of them seem to have made any significant improvement at all.

The over reliance on them is one of the main reasons for the position we are in and the sooner we can get to the point that they no longer feature as regularly the better.

[Drummond]

Which ones?

My post was directed more towards the young players we signed from the lower divisions in the summer but I'm still interested in which of our crop you think haven't come on.

[tomd2103]

Which ones?

My post was directed more towards the young players we signed from the lower divisions in the summer but I'm still interested in which of our crop you think haven't come on.

My mistake Drummond and I agree with you regarding the players we signed from lower divisions during the summer.  They are doing well now, but given time, I think Westwood and Lowton will become top players for us and I think some of the criticism of Bennett has been a little harsh.  I can't comment on Bowery as I haven't seen him play, but I do think the talent is there in the lower leagues if you look hard enough.  I just feel that signing players from the lower leagues has to be balanced with signing established quality players, which to be fair Lambert did over the summer with the likes of Vlaar.

As for our younger players, I just can't see it with a lot of them especially as some of them are now approaching their mid-twenties.  I remember Shane Warne saying about Monty Panesar that "he had played twenty first tests" and I think that is the case with our younger players.  None of them really seem to have added anything to their game since they first came into the side, with Clark and Weimann being the possible exceptions.  The others just make the same mistakes they made when they first came into the side and the fact that they feature so regularly just goes to show the kind of state the club is in.  It is no coincidence that whenever that group of players has featured for a period of time in our team, we have invariably been drawn towards the relegation zone.               

[Matt Collins]

As I and others have said before, it's playing so many youngsters in one go that has hurt us. Is bannan really worse than Gardner was at 22, or Clark / baker worse than Cahill / ridgewell. We let all of those go, and certainly few shed a tear for Gardner or ridgewell, while I've seen the Cahill / ridgewell partnership get ripped to pieces more than the current lot. Yet all would now be first team picks for us I imagine.

I don't personally think that herd or the fonz or lichaj or probably albrighton are going to be good enough. But bannan, Clark, baker, weimann, even delph have shown enough to me that they are worth persisting with. And Lowton and Westwood probably more than any of them

[tomd2103]

As I and others have said before, it's playing so many youngsters in one go that has hurt us. Is bannan really worse than Gardner was at 22, or Clark / baker worse than Cahill / ridgewell. We let all of those go, and certainly few shed a tear for Gardner or ridgewell, while I've seen the Cahill / ridgewell partnership get ripped to pieces more than the current lot. Yet all would now be first team picks for us I imagine.

I don't personally think that herd or the fonz or lichaj or probably albrighton are going to be good enough. But bannan, Clark, baker, weimann, even delph have shown enough to me that they are worth persisting with. And Lowton and Westwood probably more than any of them

Good point Matt.  It would be interesting to see how they would have got on if they were the only youngster in a team full of experienced players and if that would have helped them.  The only question I would ask is how long do you persist with them for?  The Fonz can't even hold down a regular place for Blackpool, yet I'm sure if he comes back there will be calls for him to be given a chance.

[Dante Lavelli]

As I and others have said before, it's playing so many youngsters in one go that has hurt us. Is bannan really worse than Gardner was at 22, or Clark / baker worse than Cahill / ridgewell. We let all of those go, and certainly few shed a tear for Gardner or ridgewell, while I've seen the Cahill / ridgewell partnership get ripped to pieces more than the current lot. Yet all would now be first team picks for us I imagine.

I don't personally think that herd or the fonz or lichaj or probably albrighton are going to be good enough. But bannan, Clark, baker, weimann, even delph have shown enough to me that they are worth persisting with. And Lowton and Westwood probably more than any of them

Good point Matt.  It would be interesting to see how they would have got on if they were the only youngster in a team full of experienced players and if that would have helped them.  The only question I would ask is how long do you persist with them for?  The Fonz can't even hold down a regular place for Blackpool, yet I'm sure if he comes back there will be calls for him to be given a chance.

Strangely the German's (national team and dortmund) prefer to "launch" their players in groups together so they're already part of a coherent unit.  Whereas adding players in isolation means they're more likely to expect to be carried rather than take responsibility themselves.

That's the theory anyway.  Unfortunately we have not been in the position to plan for either.

[Matt Collins]

Interesting point on the Germans. Does that apply throughout the youth system and in introducing them to first team club football at the same time? I also suspect German youth football is s much bigger standard than ours. The reserves to the first team seems a massive step up to me. A lot if ressie football looksof poor quality

[PaulTheVillan]

SH decided some time back that Lerner's strategy this season was all wrong.  A squad full of kids, wrong.  Signing unheard of players, wrong.  Selling players who want to leave, wrong.  Not signing big name mercenaries, wrong.  Building a squad based on youthful hungry players happy to play for the club, wrong.  There's probably more reasons as well. 

This is my supposition and maybe not Lerner's strategy at all. But whatever it is I'm happier that we are actually trying something different and I'd say the majority of fans back what is trying to be achieved by the club even though we may be in for a bumpy ride.  We will have a stronger base in seasons to come going this route ( The Ajax model maybe) and it's far more fun than watching some journey men players (experience) going through the motions keeping us middle of the league.

Here here

Who is SH?

[pedro25]

So far this season I would roughly rate the squad as following,

Under 23s -  Consistent (Clark, Lowton, Benteke, Westwood, Weimann, Bannan), Reliable back ups (Herd, Lichaj, Baker, Stevens), Inconsistent (Delph, Albrighton)

Over 23s -  Consistent (Guzan, Vlaar), Inconsistent (Gabby, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Holman, KEA, Given, Bent)

I would have expected more of the senior players to cement places in the 1st 11 but they just haven't done it for me, look at the quality in that second clutch of half a dozen players (ignoring Given) and compare it to the goals and assists supplied by those players and it's a very poor return.  We could ease 4 or 5 of the younger players out of the 1st team but that would be undeserved imo i think they belong there now.

[Brend'Watkins]

SH decided some time back that Lerner's strategy this season was all wrong.  A squad full of kids, wrong.  Signing unheard of players, wrong.  Selling players who want to leave, wrong.  Not signing big name mercenaries, wrong.  Building a squad based on youthful hungry players happy to play for the club, wrong.  There's probably more reasons as well. 

This is my supposition and maybe not Lerner's strategy at all. But whatever it is I'm happier that we are actually trying something different and I'd say the majority of fans back what is trying to be achieved by the club even though we may be in for a bumpy ride.  We will have a stronger base in seasons to come going this route ( The Ajax model maybe) and it's far more fun than watching some journey men players (experience) going through the motions keeping us middle of the league.

Here here

Who is SH?

saunders_heroes