Thinking The Unthinkable

[brian green]

Before I say this let me make it clear I do not hold to the view but as this season unwinds and our Premiership place looks no more secure than it has for the previous two seasons there is an emerging case for the defence of TSM.

Okay, so the football we are playing this season is a big improvement and as someone on here put it recently the manager is less easily hated than his predecessor but you cannot escape the simple fact that we still cannot drag ourselves out of the relegation zone.

Ever since whatever happened between O'Neill and the owner and the board and the club began a policy of cost cutting for me my hopes for the club I have supported all my long life have become the simple hope of the survival in the Premiership.   Forget cups, forget europe, being a Villa fan has become a joyless, anxiety dominated torture.

Are we doing the right thing attempting to play swashbuckling football or have Stoke and West Ham got it right?

In our longing to see fast, attacking, passing football are we overlooking the simple glaring fact that to be able to play that way you have to have players of adequate quality?   Are our players good enough to play swashbuckling football?   The table after twelve games says they are not.

Perhaps TSM accepted that the constraints placed upon him by the board and the owner made attractive football impossible and he just got us to hunker down and survive and we made it - just.

I have a feeling that Christmas will see us still in the relegation zone and that any players who come in will be brought in to play survival football not pass-and-move.
I do not think the owner will provide adequate funds to buy players of table climbing quality.

I hope I am wrong but I don't think I am.

[eastie]

I think survival is the main thing now this season and we may need to bring in some older experienced battlers to help the young squad we've got, I wasn't sure about Robbie Keane coming back on loan but I think his quality and experience could help our young side - I doubt randy will splash big cash in January .

The worry for me is Norwich and saints both played very well yesterday and we really need to get points on the board sooner rather than later - we cannot afford to let a gap open up .

[preston28]

Interesting perspective and to a point probably correct.  I think you're saying (as a lot have alluded to on other threads) that it doesn't matter who manages us as the Board is inept??

I guess it wouild be the same in Industry - poor Board leadership will lead to poor company results and a poor share price.

We're in a dark place at the moment but we'll come through at some stage but I do beleive we need to habe stability with a manager as the first 'green shoot' of our receovery!  Personally I don't think TSM would have been that manager!!

[Matt Collins]

The hatred of Mcleish was unjustified and embarassing. He was still the wrong choice though. Losing Petrov has been a massive problem. But our form this season is certainly no worse than the back half of last season, and in isolated patches has been better.

[Broughty-Villian]

No TSM got it wrong horribly, and got what he deserved as manager of Villa, but i think we will be lucky to finish any where near top half table, i had us down for 14th.

support the boys and Lambert we will be ok

[OzVilla]

You know what Brian, the more this season goes the more i'm thinking the same.  TSM was just trying to do the job his way within the constraints he had - it was incredibly unimaginative and he had to go but he wasn't our real problem.  This is Lerners fault.

Much as i hate to defend the pube headed one, the decisions made at Boardroom level since that day are the reasons we are where we are.  It just didn't have to be like this, not only have this managerial appointments been ham fisted and unbelievably poorly thought out, the leadership and virtual radio silence since the financial shit hit the fan just leaves me with the feeling that randy couldn't give a flying fuck about the club, apart from recouping his dwindling investment.  To see the Proud History Bright Future tagline used at the Generals latest corporate quango makes me realise how duped i was.

We will not move forward until Lerner has gone and I just pray we survive until then.

[supertom]

I don't dislike Eck at all. Initially he seemed a decent bloke, and honest and well aware of our shortcomings. I think toward the end, and backed into a corner he came across as a bit deluded and any (minimal) rapport he had with us went away. He was just in way over his head. We all knew what would happen. The only man who didn't was the man who hired McLeish. I don't think even McLeish was ever that confident that he could do anything but scrape through a relegation battle.
To some extent I think the job might just be too big for Lambert at this time. I hope not. I like him and what he wants to do here but either he needs to get more backing or he needs to widen the parameters of what he's looking for in the transfer market, or both.
Come May I think we'll survive by virtue of how piss poor the three teams below us our, but looking above I don't think the league table lies at all. We're well worth our placing. We deserve no more, no less. We can't just commend a desire to play decent football. Most of the teams bar 2-3 in this division are trying to do the same, and 16 teams are doing it better. Even as bad as Stokes brand of football is, at least it's been effective since they've come up. Their remit is always survival and they've done that and also managed to play in Europe too.

Our gameplan as yet is ineffective. If it never clicks, and given the current squad, that's a strong liklihood, then we'll be in trouble. I don't think it'll happen but it's not impossible for one of the three below us to go on a run. Maybe QPR will spunk 20 mill in jan and finally click, or change manager and have a good run. Unlikely but you never know. Right now I don't see where we're gonna pull 30 points from in the remaining games. I really don't.

[eastie]

You know what Brian, the more this season goes the more i'm thinking the same.  TSM was just trying to do the job his way within the constraints he had - it was incredibly unimaginative and he had to go but he wasn't our real problem.  This is Lerners fault.

Much as i hate to defend the pube headed one, the decisions made at Boardroom level since that day are the reasons we are where we are.  It just didn't have to be like this, not only have this managerial appointments been ham fisted and unbelievably poorly thought out, the leadership and virtual radio silence since the financial shit hit the fan just leaves me with the feeling that randy couldn't give a flying fuck about the club, apart from recouping his dwindling investment.  To see the Proud History Bright Future tagline used at the Generals latest corporate quango makes me realise how duped i was.

We will not move forward until Lerner has gone and I just pray we survive until then.

Good post - Lerner seems to avoid a lot of criticism from many , although I think Faulkner should carry the blame along with Lerner, the silence at boardroom level is a worry , we don't need to hear from him every week but it would be nice to see what randys ambitions for the club are now and where he feels we are heading, he is not a man who talks to the press much but nothing stopping him putting a statement on the website every now and again.

The Liverpool owners seem much more open with their supporters.

[Mister E]

You know what Brian, the more this season goes the more i'm thinking the same.  TSM was just trying to do the job his way within the constraints he had - it was incredibly unimaginative and he had to go but he wasn't our real problem.  This is Lerners fault.

Much as i hate to defend the pube headed one, the decisions made at Boardroom level since that day are the reasons we are where we are.  It just didn't have to be like this, not only have this managerial appointments been ham fisted and unbelievably poorly thought out, the leadership and virtual radio silence since the financial shit hit the fan just leaves me with the feeling that randy couldn't give a flying fuck about the club, apart from recouping his dwindling investment.  To see the Proud History Bright Future tagline used at the Generals latest corporate quango makes me realise how duped i was.

We will not move forward until Lerner has gone and I just pray we survive until then.

Good post - Lerner seems to avoid a lot of criticism from many , although I think Faulkner should carry the blame along with Lerner, the silence at boardroom level is a worry , we don't need to hear from him every week but it would be nice to see what randys ambitions for the club are now and where he feels we are heading, he is not a man who talks to the press much but nothing stopping him putting a statement on the website every now and again.

The Liverpool owners seem much more open with their supporters.

Faulkner can only operate within the constraints set by Lerner.
And, perhaps they have nothing to say - by which I mean: they ARE looking to reduce their cash-commitment to the club; they AREN'T going to invest in expensive playing staff. So, they have nothing they can say to us that isn't already obvious!

We are in a bind: on the one hand, Lambert has to tighten up the defence; and fast. On the other, he has limited resources / little opportunity to bring in the cavalry. Equally, he may get some cash in January to help us preserve our lucrative EPL status, but will he invest in short-term needs or continue to gamble on bringing in potential?

Once again, it all looks a little like a confused strategy to me: which - if it is - comes back to Lerner.

[ktvillan]

PL survival is more or less everything these days unfortunately and it is tempting to take the pragmatic view in order to survive.  However, in any almost any other season the paltry 38 points achieved by TSM would have seen us relegated. Despite the ultra-pragmatic approach, he was, and we were, very very lucky that there happened to be a batch of even poorer teams that saved us.  Along the way he dished up some of the most joyless, hopeless, ambition-less, depressing and dispiriting anti-football ever played by a Villa team.  The away "performance" at Spurs in particular was a disgrace to the name of Aston Villa.  I was convinced he would take us down and frankly I thought we would have deserved it for not even trying to win.  You could say it worked and it may have got better afterwards, but his record shows that last season wasn't a one-off - that was his M.O.

I know even 38 points looks a long way off at the moment, and the jury is still out on Lambert, but it's still early days.  He still has time and a transfer window to turn it around, and with 2-3 experienced additions we would have a decent enough team.  I'd doubt even Lerner is stupid enough not to cough up for some reinforcements in January.   I also think we've been slightly unfortunate in that, after experimenting with line ups and losing some games we should probably have done better in,  Lambert seemed to have settled on one that was looking quite decent, only to hit  run of games against the best teams in the country.   I think we'll be in a better position to judge if there is light at the end of the tunnel  after the run of 3-4 games following the Arsenal game.  If not, I suppose I can at least take some consolation in the fact I'm not ashamed of the way we're playing, even when we get thumped like yesterday.   

I can't put my finger on why but I feel much better and more optimistic than I ever did under TSM.

[OzVilla]

Well the difference being that we look like we actually try to win games under PL so we atleast have a chance in more matches. 

TSM surrendered at least 12 games last season before a ball had been kicked so it effectively turned a 38 game season into a 26 game one.  Which became rather galling when we saw other teams around us take points against those Clubs.

[Risso]

The football isn't a big improvement though.

[andyh]

It seems that those of us who did not want TSM from the start were vindicated.
BUT, by biggest worry is that most fans would have taken pretty much ANYBODY after TSM and hailed him as the new messiah.
Yes, it is early days  I have real concerns over Lambert, but I am more concerned that we we have become a club used to losing and a club who appears content to just survive.

I worry a gap is going to open up between the bottom 3 or 4 and those above and that we do not have the consistency, players nor ability to put a run of results together.
Bloody hell, thinking about it, when was the last time we won 3 league games on the bounce?

It going to be a long, cold winter........again!

[Salsa Party Animal]

I wonder what the different in job between Aston Villa and Norwich for Paul Lambert. Apart from different club, location, size, resources and players.

Also if we go on a winning run let say 4 or 5 games in a row, it would clear the pressure.

[silhillvilla]

The football isn't a big improvement though.

Nope it's arguable worse.