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Author Topic: Safe standing trial offer  (Read 26612 times)

Online amfy

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #105 on: November 21, 2012, 08:32:31 AM »
To really take this forward Villa need to be able to demonstrate that the fans want it - and that eveidence isn't there at the moment. The FSF petition has a huge number of signatures - but actually when it comes down to it, it's a number that doesn't add up to the support of one club, let alone 92.
I think the difficulty with getting fans to campaign for standing is that they mostly already do. Many don't understand that the stewards have to be seen to get them to sit down and aren't just doing it to be arsey - they have to do it to prevent the club being sanctioned. Even closing parts of some grounds doesn't affect people that much whilst attendances are low. The odd fan who is thrown out at an away game for persistent standing just goes back to the pub and meets his mates after as a bit of a hero. The battle with the stewards is as much part of the matchday experience for younger fans as the sway of the terraces was for those of us that remember it.
It'd be better for everyone not to have to have that battle with the stewards - then the stewards could spend time actually helping people, or dealing with genuine trouble makers.
The advantages of standing at a football match aren't just about atmosphere, it about not being so cold on a horrible winters day, it's about not having to keep standing & sitting down again when everyone leaves early for half time/comes back late/leaves early to beat the traffic. Actually - just not having to keep getting up and down full stop - it's actually harder on older people than simply standing! It's also about people who want to sit being able to sit.
But .....whilst people are standing anyway and steward baiting is a bit of a laugh for many fans, it's difficult to see how we can get the masses motivated to make a noise about standing by any method other than.....just standing. This might be enough if the authorities didn't argue that most of the people standing don't want to, they are just standing because people are in their way!
I know that when I talk to fans around me at Villa that aren't internet geeks, they understand very little about the issues surrounding standing, so it probably would take a concerted campaign by a number of dedicated fans to take the message out there on matchdays, and get ordinary fans to sign up their support. Would anyone be up for this to take it forward?

Offline astonvillan

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #106 on: November 21, 2012, 04:20:36 PM »
Villa have said they're interested but other clubs seem reluctant. I think we need to make this a wider supporter issue across all clubs, but how it becomes a general campaign is the big question.
i think it's more of clubs expecting a backlash from the ignorant and uneducated. For a club the size of us to speak in support of this campaign is massive for the FSF. We get the shit and get it into the public eye. Reason is all the SCG meetings where it was brought up ad nausium, declining crowds and declining interest got the Villa. It'll benefit us in the long term I'm sure.
I expect more clubs to follow now we've taken the lead. There have been 2 relatively big clubs in Wolves and Blues as well as Hull speak up anoit this issue and I'm sure  more will follow suit.

In the Premier League West Ham and Sunderland have also backed it.

Then you've got Derby, Peterborough, Crystal Palace, Bristol City, Burnley, Watford, Brentford, AFC Wimbledon & Doncaster.

A good number but it'd be nice to have a few more PL clubs. Jon Darch has said that there are others in the Prem who support the concept but are not ready to go public yet. Shame.

Offline andyh

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #107 on: November 21, 2012, 05:00:39 PM »
Each to their own and all that, but standing doesn't appeal to me anymore.
Given some of the twats, chav's and 'no respect' individuals that follow us (and most other clubs I suspect) I can just imagine what a standing area would be like, and its not for me.

That said, its all about choice. 

Offline villajk

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #108 on: November 21, 2012, 05:13:37 PM »
Each to their own and all that, but standing doesn't appeal to me anymore.
Given some of the twats, chav's and 'no respect' individuals that follow us (and most other clubs I suspect) I can just imagine what a standing area would be like, and its not for me.

That said, its all about choice. 

I'm all for safe standing so that those who want to stand can.  I don't want to stand, I want to sit so it suits all.  Hopefully.

Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #109 on: November 21, 2012, 07:52:24 PM »
It tells you all you need to know on the topic, and how different football is now, when some that I know would love to stand as long as they can have a sit down in the warm in the Holte Suite at half time!

Offline martin o`who??

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #110 on: November 21, 2012, 08:37:26 PM »
We should be given the right of choice, they even have standing areas at gigs now, AND they`re allowed to take Alcohol into the area, if it can happen at the NEC it can happen in Football grounds, were discriminated against, because we`re football fans, and therefore the lowest of the low, and incapable of independent thought - wrong, bring on the revolution!!..

Offline bruisedshins

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #111 on: November 23, 2012, 02:24:12 PM »
We should be given the right of choice, they even have standing areas at gigs now, AND they`re allowed to take Alcohol into the area, if it can happen at the NEC it can happen in Football grounds, were discriminated against, because we`re football fans, and therefore the lowest of the low, and incapable of independent thought - wrong, bring on the revolution!!..

I think gigs stopped being all seater events some time around 1965  ;)

I would absolutely love to see a trial standing area at Villa Park with the aim to make larger areas standing should the trial go to plan. I haven't heard a single argument against standing areas at football stadiums that stands up to debate and it would provide a much needed injection of atmosphere into the crowd.

Offline garyfouroaks

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #112 on: November 25, 2012, 08:30:21 PM »
To really take this forward Villa need to be able to demonstrate that the fans want it - and that eveidence isn't there at the moment..............

The above post, in full, is one of the most pragmatic I have seen for a long time.

The problem is not that having standing areas does not have merit, it is that there is little impetus for change from the status quo.
It is easy to simply accept that since the Taylor Report and Hillsborough we have had no crowd related deaths in British stadiums for twenty three years. All seaters at large capacity football grounds have worked.Terraces didn't.

 In the twenty three years working from Hillsborough backwards, sixty six died at Ibrox, fifty six at Bradford, ninety six at Hillsborough and thirty nine at Heysel, an astonishing two hundred and fifty seven people. Although Bradford was not terrace related being in a seated area, it did reflect poor safety standards endemic in football then. Heysel, although abroad, could have happened at numerous English grounds.

So the question is asked- 0 v 257, why change?

Then there is the question of cost. If it is just a question of allowing people to stand where there are currently seats then it is no change. If it is a question of rail standing, one rail per seat, why would clubs pay extra to facilitate something which is happening already? If it is a question of increased density then there is the cost of re-profiling terraced steps and alterations to exits , entrances, and toilet and refreshment provision for no payback.

I do think that there is a very strong case for German style rail seating in new purpose built stands- but that will be a long haul.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #113 on: December 11, 2012, 02:54:13 PM »
From the Beeb

Quote
Thirteen English league clubs support re-introducing standing at football grounds, according to a fans' group.
On Tuesday, the Football Supporters' Federation is hoping to win the backing of MPs for its plans for a small-scale trial at Premier League clubs.
It believes the pilot scheme would show standing - outlawed after the Hillsborough disaster in 1989 - is now a safe way to watch football.

The Premier League has previously said it opposed the idea.
FSF's Peter Daykin said: "We need to find out if it can work and the only way to do that is to trial it."
All-seater stadiums have been compulsory in the Premier League since 1994, following Lord Justice Taylor's report after the Hillsborough disaster.
But MP Roger Godsiff has tabled an Early Day Motion calling for government approval of a pilot scheme.
The FSF says the idea has the support of Aston Villa and the Scottish Premier League plus 12 Football League clubs, including Peterborough United, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Derby County and Hull City.
The proposal is to introduce a design of "rail seat" currently used in some European countries such as Germany. This incorporates a safety barrier and a flip-down seat on every other row. The seats can be locked in an upright position, meaning two rows of supporters can stand in between the barriers, which reduces the danger of a crush.

A panel of industry experts containing Villa's chief executive Paul Faulkner and West Midlands Police Force Superintendent Steve Graham will present a case for allowing standing at matches at Portcullis House in Westminster on Tuesday.
FSF's safe standing co-ordinator Daykin told BBC Sport: "The debate about standing has reached a point where both sides are entrenched.
"The bottom line is things have changed dramatically since 23 years ago when the Taylor Report was produced.
"Things have moved on massively in terms of technology and know-how around safety in football grounds.
"So, what we are calling for is a number of small-scale trials at Premier League clubs up and down the country.
"Then experts, safety officers and the police can see how it works in a modern context.
"We have had 50 MPs sign up to Roger Godsiff's EDM and correspondence showing support from more MPs unable to sign an EDM for technical reasons."
Professional Footballers' Association chief executive Gordon Taylor said on Monday that clubs might have to introduce netting around pitches to protect players.
Taylor was speaking after Manchester United's Rio Ferdinand was hit by an object as his side celebrated the winning goal against Manchester City on Sunday.

English league clubs backing trial
Aston Villa
Brentford
Bristol City
Burnley
Cardiff City
Crystal Palace
Derby County
Doncaster Rovers
Hull City
Peterborough United
Plymouth Argyle
Watford
AFC Wimbledon

Offline Shrek

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #114 on: December 11, 2012, 06:32:21 PM »
Where i sit in K4, we stand every game, The atmosphere is so much better.

Offline saunders_heroes

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #115 on: December 11, 2012, 06:43:20 PM »
Why the lack of Premier League clubs other than us?

Offline E I Adio

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #116 on: December 11, 2012, 06:43:37 PM »
Where i sit in K4, we stand every game.

*Oxymoron alert*

Offline The Laughing Policeman

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Re: Safe standing trial offer
« Reply #117 on: December 12, 2012, 12:25:11 AM »
Why the lack of Premier League clubs other than us?
If you have a scoot around most of the Premier League clubs forums I think you'll find most of them have threads mostly in favour of a trial period for safe standing. But with the people holding the purse strings (The Premier League) being against the idea, most clubs are afraid to put their heads above the parapet.
To quote Mr. Woodhall "Aston Villa doing the right thing since 1874."

 


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