The Villa play like England when we should play like Germany

[Londonvilla]

Are you aware of  similarities between England and the Villa?

Everybody knows the Aston Villa have provided more players to the England team than any other club, however have you noticed the similarity between how the England team has played over the last 10 years and how Aston Villa have played over that period of time?

England have failed over a number of years to retain possession of the ball especially in midfield, the same can be said of Aston Villa

England have failed over a number of years to play the ball out from the back utilising the skills of the centre halves or the fullbacks, the same can be said of the Villa

England, when under pressure boot the ball as far down the field as possible giving possession back to their opponents, the same can be said of the Villa

England's defensive midfield players are able to break up play but can make no other contribution towards the game, in that they cannot start attacking moves, support the front players or cover for defenders out of position. The same can be said of the Villa

In essence this thread is about our inability to keep the ball for any period of time during a game especially when we come under attack, and our need to play like the Germans.

In looking back we can see that we played football, on the ground where players attempted to pass the ball to one another under Ron Atkinson back in the early 90s based on having an experienced midfield.

This was followed up with Brian little and then John Gregory who also played attractive football based on mobile, box to box midfield players who could put in a tackle and score a goal but fundamentally understood the principles of pass and move.

I would like to gloss over  Graham Taylor’s second period in charge at the Villa because he didn't really have the time to bring in his own players and stamp his own mark on the team (or that's what I want to believe). This period was then followed by the reign of David (O dreary) O Leary where we played football going forward but when under pressure (especially away from home) defenders would boot the ball up the pitch so that the opposition would gain possession and start another attack.

Martin O'Neill was essentially a counter attacker, building his team to resemble the old Nottingham Forest European cup winning team. Essentially he appeared not to be interested in passing the ball through the midfield as the aim was to get the ball up the field as quickly as possible and to defend in numbers. The last 10 min of games were painful for watching  Villa fans as wave after wave of attacks from the opposition were aimed at the Villa defence with us contributing to our own downfall by constantly giving the opposition the ball back.

There were signs under Gerard Houllier  that football was returning to Villa Park and it would have been interesting to see what he would have done once he brought his own players into the club.

Alex McLeish however demonstrated everything that is wrong about modern football, where the fear of losing overwhelmed any attempts to entertain or play the game in a way we would all like to see.

So what can we expect under Paul Lambert? Well the style of play is likely to be similar to how the German team play, especially as this is where Paul Lambert plays and this has been his biggest influence. (In addition the culture is closer to that of the English culture, than that of Spanish or the Portuguese culture) so which of the existing players in our squad are likely to have the necessary skills to play like the Germans? ( with the necessary physical strength, skill and intelligence)

Shay given – Is he too long in the tooth to start distributing the ball to fullbacks? The European Championships would indicate that we may have a problem because Shay did not miss an opportunity to boot the ball down the field as far as he could, enabling possession to be given back to the opposition. In addition he is a very small goalkeeper, I would not be surprised to see Andy Marsheall (reserve team goalkeeper) getting a chance to play in the cup games this season.
 
Alan Hutton – has the physical strength to get up and down the pitch but lacks the technical skills and intelligence needed to play like the Germans. Very poor player

Stephen Warnock – has the physical strength to get up and down the wing and the technical skills but does not have the football intelligence to play as a left back. I know lots of people don't rate him but if he stays at Aston Villa it needs to be as a holding midfield player, where last season he contributes to all phases of play (in that he could be seen in both boxes and played simple passes to people's feet) at the end the day that's where Blackburn play him before Martin O'Neill overpaid and brought him into the club. maybe able to play like a German

Richard Dunne – has the physical strength and on his day the football intelligence to play centre half what he lacks is the technical skills to contribute to any other phase of play. Can you imagine seeing Richard Dunne raced forward with the ball at his feet into midfield before laying off a pass to the feet of another Villa player? Sorry Richard you have no future in the new German Villa team

James Collins – has the physical strength, the technical skill to play like the Germans however he has the brains of a rocking horse. I have no idea whether Paul Lambert can teach him when to run forward with the ball, when to pass the ball simply, and when to attempt medium and long-term passes. I'm fed up of watching Collins look up and attempt a 50 yard pass which ends up going over the head of the Villa player he was aiming for. There is a good player in their it's a shame he's a bit of a prat. Cant see him playing like a German.

Stephen Ireland – at his best he could walk into any team aiming to play like the Germans. At his worst he couldn't get into my nephews under 11s team. Unless an extraordinarily high bid comes in I think it's worth keeping him and giving him another go, as he clearly has the skill, physical ability, and football brain needed to play like a German.

Darren Bent – plays in a similar way to Mario Gomez, who does not do anything in a game other than score. If we created as many chances for him as Bayern Munich create for Gomez, then he would be scoring 40 goals a season. I'm sure he can play like a German but he could never play like the Spanish.

Charles N’Zogbia - and there's definitely a player in there with the ability and physical skills necessary to play like Germans however he  is another person whose football intelligence is poor. Why does he never look up when he has the ball at his feet? He should be providing 10 to 15 assists a year just for Darren Bent. I'm not sure that Paul Lambert will be able to get it into Charles head the fact that football is a team game. If he can we have a player on our hands if he doesn't we've wasted another £10 million. I am not sure he can play like a German.

Gabriel  Agbonlahor – let's face facts is not a winger he is a centre forward who is best playing on the shoulder of the last man, in a team that only plays one up front. In any team lineup it should be Darren or Gaby not both. I don't have a problem with this as we need to have a strong bench and Gaby will contribute throughout the season. Can play like a German, but not a very good one.

Marc Albrighton – needs to build up his physical strength, has the technical skills and the football intelligence but  I'm not sure he's playing in the right position surely he is an attacking midfield player rather than the wide man. Everyone should remember that Peter Whittingham was an average wide man and has turned out to be a better than average attacking midfield player. It's just a shame we didn't have the patience for him to develop at Villa Park. Marc is definitely someone who can play in a German way because he can retain possession and pass the ball.

Fabian Delph – when fit he can play in the German style as he has a great engine, technical skills and football intelligence, all he needs is a manager to have confidence in him and tell him to be at his most effective in the final third of the pitch

Jean Makoun - I've no idea why we sent him on loan, I assume that it has something to do with the way in which the fees is being paid to his former club (based on appearances?) however he proved in his short time at Villa Park that he can affect the game in all phases of play and retain the ball. Is he a great player? probably not. Is he what we need in away games when the opposing team are attacking and our defence is under pressure?, definitely

Ciaran Clarke – could have been a future England captain if he hadn't decided to play for Ireland, is perfect for the German style of play as he will be a centre half who can play in midfield and passed the ball to somebody else wearing a claret and blue shirt.

Barry Bannan – Ian Holloway said on the radio that Barry Bannan was one of the most technically gifted footballers that it ever worked with,(when Barry was on loan at Blackpool.) The only issue was about his physical abilities (to get up and down the pitch) and his desire to play killer balls all the time. In my view he could become a superstar if he improves his football intelligence. Could play like a German but will he?

Eric Lichaj - this is why I love the Villa, Eric has improved dramatically with exposure to the first-team if he's given his opportunity next season and continues to improve he will save us millions he has the physical strength to get up and down the pitch and the football intelligence but needs the confidence of knowing he is in the team before we will really see whether he has the technical skills to be a top player. Can definitely play in the German style.

Chris Herd – another player who  has improved with exposure to the first-team if he improves at the same rate next season we will definitely have a player on our hands. Physically able to play at a higher level with good technical skills and his football intelligence is improving game after game. Can definitely play in the German style

Nathan Baker – saw him play for Plymouth Argyle when he was on loan and he showed technical skills (which he hasn't shown at Villa Park yet) as well as football intelligence. The only thing I doubt is regarding his physical abilities but he's definitely one to watch as he can play the ball from the back.

Gary Gardner – anyone who's seen any reserve games knows that Gary has to be the centre of attention everything has to be played through him and when you do this you get the closest player to Glenn Hoddle that I've seen in years. However if you use him in the way that Alex McLeish used him (a defensive midfield player with all the other out field players) then you may as well keep him on the bench. If he's handled correctly he will be the next centre midfield player for Manchester city, Madrid or Barcelona. He's that good. He can definitely play in the German style

Daniel Johnson – I was listening to talk sport when they were talking about how good Daniel Johnson was and how well he played against the Manchester United reserve team. He is yet another in the production line that if handled well, we are almost certainly bound to lose in the long term to a club that will come in and pay big money. He has all the skills to play in the German style.

Samir Carruthers – one of the most important players at Villa Park because he rejected a contract keeping him at Arsenal to come to Villa Park because he felt he would get the opportunity to play first-team football. If he succeeds it will send a message to the best young players in the land that signing for the champions league teams will result in them having a career playing in the lower leagues. Coming to Aston Villa means you have an opportunity of playing in the premiership in front of 40,000+ fans every other week. Samir has the technical skills and physical strength needed to play in the German style, the issue is whether he has the football intelligence. Maybe a loan spell at a championship club will help.

When you look at the main players in our first-team squad Paul Lambert has a lot of good material to work with so I would urge all Villa fans to get out there lederhosen, look forward to eating German sausages at half-time, and drinking German beer. Basing our style of play on the German national team is the way to go, (looking at the players available to Paul Lambert)

Or am I a traitor who should be locked up in the tower for not loving warm beer, steak and kidney pie ( I don't like kidneys ) and the traditional British (kick and rush) style of football.

I'm sure we can play in the German style and this is what we should aim for, but have I gone completely mad? Are our players good enough?

[Fasth56]

Watching England last night was just like watching the turgid rubbish that we had to watch last season from the Villa.
Concentrate on not losing, hope to snatch a goal, hoof the ball up front, no movement off the ball, no closing down in the opposition half, funnelling back to the two banks of four.

Even the substitutions were as baffling, why was Young left on and Milner taken off, Wellbeck taken off instead of Rooney. When you want to win a game why bring on a midfielder when you have Defoe on the bench.

Then we get all the bollocks about the effort and commitment of the players, well if that is all it takes Pick me for the next squad and I can give you 120 mins of effort and commitment.

[villastikz]

Very interesting analogy and good a assessment of the players and I think you're on to something.

[luke25]

I put it in the match thread last night that it was like watching Villa, I don't just mean the Villa of last season either, i'm going back a decade here were we just don't fucking move off the ball (apologies for the late night use of language, its just been a hatred of mine for too long now), nobodies comfortable in tight spaces, some of them are'nt even comfortable when they've got space, we always lose possession from throw in's because of those things.

[Barney74]

I always thought that watching the Villa was like watching Ireland... all over the place for the first 20 minutes and can't defend in the last 10... 

And, no I don't know why Milly was taken off last night against Italy either...

[Jim Shoes]

Villa under "he who shall not be named" played the worst kind of football that I have ever had the misfortune to watch.

PL's Norwich played a style that was far far better albeit with lesser players. I'm really excited by what he will do over the coming seasons with better players at his disposal. That said when I say "lesser players" I don't include these 4 muppets as our defence was shocking, Hutton, Collins, Dunne and Warnock are all rubbish and must be sold or released ASAP, imo.

Once he has sorted them out maybe we will all be looking forward to watching Villa play again and the last few years will be forgotten.

[Witton Warrior]

There is nothing inherently wrong with a counter-attacking style, especially if playing a similar side with better players - Atkinson's League Cup winning tactic against Manure.

I do however absolutely agree that the level of basic footballing skill is dire. The 70'd model of "pass and move" used by Liverpool is simple, elegant and effective - we have passed (to the opposition) and stayed put far too much.

It is to be hoped that PL will coach some skills into them while building on the strengths you identify in the original post.

We are also like England in that expectation of success is very low after 2 years of upheaval and things can only get better...

[Mr Speedy H]

This is a fantastic post. A real good read and a great assessment of Villa.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a counter-attacking style...

This is true ... if it works.

I think this was the Blue Noses plan for last season. Defend, hoof, counter, score. The players on the other hand did not want to play this way, and it just failed miserably.

[john e]

Man Utd dont play an intricate passing game,
 they do counter attack very succesfully, but you cant say their game plan is based on it as they tend to dominate possession against most mid/lower prem teams

Pace,Power and a team work ethic coupled with the ability to buy some the best players in their position in the world helps,
however when they come up against a decent footballing side ie Barca, Bilbao etc they invariably get found out, not that they lose many, but they do then rely on the counter attack a lot more in europe

[Phil from the upper holte]

The German's are like machines..Even when they aren't playing well they still win much like Man U. I'd love us to play that way, when they get in their stride they can destroy teams.

I feel we have been severly lacking for years especially at home, Even under Mon we didn't win that many at home, Often struggling against the teams in the lower half as our counter attacking game plan did not work when the opposition don't want to attack, I'd really like to see Villa park become a fortress once again

[Concrete John]

It's a detailed assessment and I won't knock it, even if I disagree on some individual players. 

However, it's based on the premise that Bertie will try to get us playing like Germany, which I'm not so sure about.  I didn't see much 'Germany-like' in his norwich side, but rather a gung ho attitude to scoring goals, possibly as he knew they weren't good enough to defend their way to safety.  He also seems to like to change his tactics as necessary during a game, so even if someone like N'Zog doesn't fit in, he'd use him off the bench if he identifies an opposing fullback who has a weakness when he's run at. 

So I'm not sure how we will play under the new manager, so assessing players against is premature, IMO.

[Salsa Party Animal]

I would prefer us to be Real Madrid or Barcelona of the Midlands, but I will settle for Bayern Munich version of the Midlands. 

I don't like Aston Villa or England football style at the moment.

[ktvillan]

Watching the Italy game I was thinking it was just like watching Villa under O'Neill and TSM, the second half especially.

They may not be up to German international standards but we have players with decent enough technical ability like Ireland, Bannan, Makoun, N'Zogbia, even Delph, who could play a more passing and possession based game if allowed to.  Our experienced defenders are another case though, quarried right out of football's stone age.

[Mister E]

I prefer to look at the Spanish for a workable model. Not because everyone is eulogising in a pining sort of way about them.
The Spanish play the game with amazing simplicity: they regard possession of the ball as the key fundamental; they look for the short simple pass; they support each other so that the short pass can be made; they tenaciously close down the opposition in order to regain the ball; they hardly ever hack the ball from the back (the keeper rarely kicks long, preferring to roll out to the defender).
Their game is all about player-movement.

Okay, so - pre-empting the obvious challenge to this post - there are some fundamental player-pre-requisites!
- they've got to be fit;
- their first-touch has to be excellent, every time;
- they have got to be incredibly comfortable on the ball;
- they need to be able to anticipate the pass and to be looking for the next pass before the ball has reached them;
They've all got to be ball-winners.

I think this is what Rodgers was trying to achieve at Swansea.

Any team can play like this! but it requires the right players with the pre-requisites listed above.

Oh, and they're not fixated with on-field positions (like, we need to have two wingers, and we need a goalscoring striker, etc); but more about the player-qualities described above.

And, Ireland on his day could slot easily into this approach; as could Clark as a defender and Herd as a midfielder; Makoun could probably do it too.

[olaftab]

Paul Lambert is a German coach.