Claret & blue: the history?

[Apyadg]

Also when Arsenal started up, we gave them our old kit, which is why they had them colours at the start? That was almost chocolate wasn't it?

Where did this come from, both the History page on the Aresenal site, and historicalkits.co.uk suggest that their original kit was donated by Forest.

[SX150]

Is there anything official that states Aston Villa play in Sky Blue?

[Billy Walker]

Also when Arsenal started up, we gave them our old kit, which is why they had them colours at the start? That was almost chocolate wasn't it?

Where did this come from, both the History page on the Aresenal site, and historicalkits.co.uk suggest that their original kit was donated by Forest.

They also wore a very familiar looking claret and blue striped number for at least a season (according to the Historical Kits site).

I have read too that Herbert Chapman copied the sleeves/body design from Villa.

On the Villa Memories forum I posted a link to a site that shows reprints of vintage football articles from newspapers of yesteryear.  Looking at it, I came across a couple of adverts from the 1920's that actually sell claret and blue jerseys under the generic label of "Aston Villa".  I reckon back then the colours were synonymous with the club.  The way I imagine  it it would have been easy enough for a person running a football team to simply enter their local sports shop and ask for eleven "Aston Villa" shirts and, hey presto, they would have their club's colours/kits sorted.  I wonder if this is how West Ham got to wear our colours?

Off the top of my head Crystal Palace and Derry City (League of Ireland) also started off wearing claret and blue.

[nigel]

Wikipedia

That's where I cut my comment from (#2) to save going on the link

[dave.woodhall]

Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:

Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.

Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.

[nigel]

Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:

Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.

Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.

Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7? 

[dave.woodhall]

Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:

Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.

Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.

Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7? 

Commercial artist, as it was then known.

[nigel]

Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:

Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.

Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.

Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7? 

Commercial artist, as it was then known.

[philthebar]

Isn't the west ham thing a myth?  I'm sure I read somewhere that it was actually due to a bet thatsomeone at villa had and lost with one of the founders of west ham.

That's my belief on the West Ham kit too.

[dave.woodhall]

The West Ham story about the bet is true. Richard Whitehead wrote about Arsenal copying our design but privately said it was probably made up. 

[paulcomben]

You guys are amazing.

And so is this subject. In the Google age, everyone can know everything and yet this seems to be a genuine mystery.

What a well-deserved tonic for fans who spend the playing season being baffled by easy-to-answer questions like 'why does Eck only defend and never attack?' or 'why did MON never make a substitution?' or 'what the hell was Ellis trying to achieve...?'

[not3bad]

Maybe they heard somebody chanting "William McGregor's Claret & Blue Army" and thought "hang on..."

[SX150]

I'm sticking with Claret & Pale Blue for the club colours then which has been the belief for many generations of our Villa family. Only recently have I been told we play in Sky Blue. Maybe Mr Woodhall can shed some light or express his belief.

[UK Redsox]

Next up, the definitive answer as to why Barry didn't take the penalty.

[Ian.]

Listen carefully, while I explain it AGAIN:

Nobody knows the definitive reason why Villa play in claret and blue. It isn't because William McGregor and his wife supported Rangers and Hearts respectively; both were comparatively minor teams then and he had no interest in football until he moved to Birmingham. Neither is it because Villa copied the interior design of the Barton's - it wasn't built until 1904.

Two more realistic theories have been put forward, the first by former programme editor and author Bernard Gallagher who during the course of his research discovered that Villa inside forward Ollie Wheatley, who was a graphic designer, was commissioned to design a kit. This might tie in with the second theory, by Simon Inglis. At this time many of the larger houses in Birmingham would have had Minton tiles, and the most common design of these were in claret (or chocolate) and blue. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Wheatley saw this somewhere and copied it.

Were there such people as graphic designers in 1886/7? 

Well I'm glad I was not around then or I would have been out of work.