Return of O'Neill - divided opinion

[john e]

i' going to put a massive bet on us beating sunderland, i really think we will win this one, i might even go a full £10'

i didnt like MON style of football, so wasnt upset when he left, obviously through hindsight didnt realise who the replacements would be, which ultimatly means he was better than what we got now, but still would not want him back

to old to boo, but he wont be getting any applause either, i will say he gave me some great days out while he was with us, especially early on, but in the end it all sadly ended in boredom football and a walk out

[dave.woodhall]

I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.

Fully agree.

I just can't see him sitting in his office in early June checking the calendar as saying "Yep, that'll be about the right time - 5 days to go and that'll really screw 'em up!"

What I blame for the timing was the inability of the three men involved, MON, Randy and Faulkner, not te realise the situation wasn't going to work earlier and acting in the best interests of the club.  OK, you could argue they tried to make it work, but ultimately it was a mess that cost us.

As to his record while here, the money will always be the sticking point.  Should he have done more with it?  Maybe, but my own criticism, once you can analyse it after the event, is that he could have done the same with less, as evidenced by the amount of players not getting a game and the youth hardly featuring.

A good manager with faults.  I'll be joining the applause for him.

Most of this....I don't believe for one minute MON sat there thinking right I'll wait for the right time whereby I can cause maximum disruption and then I'm of.

For me its obvious Randy Lerner and others moved him into a position where he couldn't stay, call it conspiracy or whatever you like but put the picture together and everything points to a set of manipulative individuals in the background trying to bring about someones downfall, phucking evil if you ask me and generally in life what goes around comes around and I think its fair to say Lerner and Co are getting there just deserts, then you look at the award given to MON in the case afterwards, didn't we end up paying him, we don't know the intricacies of that but its fair to say MON was found in the right.

So as for MON coming back to Villa, I hold no grudge in fact we had 4 great seasons under MON, not the best football, but dam site better than now, that only now we are seeing just how good they was, of course you'll get the  banging the head against the wall mentality that will only want to see one side of the story, in which case MON will always be in the wrong even if Lerner came out and said "actually it was all my fault", but there you go.

You're certainly only interested in one side of the story. Of course he could have stayed. He could have got on with the job and worked under the sort of limitations every other manager, indeed everyone else who has a job, has to. No employee should be allowed to pick their own conditions and budget - everyone else accepts that except O'Neill and those supporters who believe for whatever reason that everything the club does is wrong.

"Manipulative,"  "evil," "there (sic) just deserts" and you accuse others of being blinkered. 

[Villanation]

As good an example of a cheque book manager as you will ever see - and even then we could only just about hit sixth in a very mediocre league

Please explain reversal of form at Sunderland?
A little reading on this site should tell you that MON+chequebook  = disaster around the corner. If anything he's the very definition of a non-chequebook manager and would surely suit a partnership with the right director of football...

MON is one of the best managers in the game, that's very widely excepted, look at the pattern of events that have befallen the club since his departure and it becomes very obvious that the situation that led to MON going wasn't just down to him, and to believe that a club like Villa are still counting the cost from the MON era, years or seasons after him going is tosh, Villa are suffering from ineptitude, was then and still are now, even more so, that's what we are suffering from, and I have to say this, these so called horrendous figures that where chalked up by MON, I would love to see the actual figures of his expenditure of the wage deals he created and how that balances out with the fact that a lot of the players have since been moved on and at a profit, Like Young, like Downing like Milner, massive influx of money from these, what was it he paid for those 3 players, Young 10ML, Milner 12ML and Downing 12ML was it and how much did they go for, and as for Heskey, there have been 2 managers since MON and neither have opted for getting rid, why not.

Just a further point that had nothing to do with MON who are the current highest earners in the club at this time, correct me if I'm wrong but  pretty sure it starts with Ireland and Bent.

[Irish villain]

Looking back over our managerial history, the Villa Park hot-seat really is a poisoned chalice isn't it? Is Graham Taylor mark I the last time a villa manager has kicked on with a good reputation to another good job?

[eastie]

Excellent post irish villan- i agree with much of what you posted.

Lerners actions since mon left make me feel mon was right to walk out although i felt he had taken us as far as he could , lerner should take more blame than anyone for our current plight.

[Ger Regan]

As good an example of a cheque book manager as you will ever see - and even then we could only just about hit sixth in a very mediocre league

Please explain reversal of form at Sunderland?
A little reading on this site should tell you that MON+chequebook  = disaster around the corner. If anything he's the very definition of a non-chequebook manager and would surely suit a partnership with the right director of football...

Except he can't bear to have anyone at the club with anything like the amount of power that he has. The appointments of FitzGerald and Faulkner showed that (FitzGerald in particular, from what I remember him leaving was a very strange case of the tail wagging the dog), and while I'm not as up with the goings on at Sunderland, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Niall Quinn's departure had something to do with him either.

For the record, I've bored my friends to death with my disdain for O'Neill. The most over-rated manager going, who brought this club to it's knees with his transfer dealings. Yes, Randy has to take some of the blame for that, but the same people blaming him now would be blaming him had he put the brakes on the spending sooner, which would have resulted in O'Neill leaving sooner than he did. He's in a lose-lose situation.

[pauliewalnuts]

Regardless of what one thinks of MON, whether it was the board's fault for forcing him out, or his fault for not thinking he should worry about the wage bill, you can not get away from the fact that he walked out on us five days before the start of the season.

For all the affection still held by many for him, there obviously wasn't much coming back the other way from him if he was prepared to shaft us like that, was there?

The best managers leave a legacy. O'Neill's legacy was a squad with way too much dross on high wages and long contracts - the majority due to his scatter gun transfer policy. Some legacy, that.

Personally, I hope he doesn't get booed, as it'll just give the media an excuse to get on their ill-informed high horses about it again, and tell us how incredibly lucky we were to have him grace us with his labour for four years.

One thing I will say, though, is I bet he thought that when he'd return to Villa Park it'd be in a much better job than Sunderland. The fact that he has made a move that can't really even be described as sideways, rather than upwards, says it all, really.

[pauliewalnuts]

Except he can't bear to have anyone at the club with anything like the amount of power that he has. The appointments of FitzGerald and Faulkner showed that (FitzGerald in particular, from what I remember him leaving was a very strange case of the tail wagging the dog), and while I'm not as up with the goings on at Sunderland, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Niall Quinn's departure had something to do with him either.

I've heard this from someone who was closely involved with the management side of Villa for a few years, and is a close friend of one of the people who have been our CEO for a spell.

I think you are also right about Quinn.

[Villanation]

I do not believe he planned to quit at the time he did to cause maximum damage.

Fully agree.

I just can't see him sitting in his office in early June checking the calendar as saying "Yep, that'll be about the right time - 5 days to go and that'll really screw 'em up!"

What I blame for the timing was the inability of the three men involved, MON, Randy and Faulkner, not te realise the situation wasn't going to work earlier and acting in the best interests of the club.  OK, you could argue they tried to make it work, but ultimately it was a mess that cost us.

As to his record while here, the money will always be the sticking point.  Should he have done more with it?  Maybe, but my own criticism, once you can analyse it after the event, is that he could have done the same with less, as evidenced by the amount of players not getting a game and the youth hardly featuring.

A good manager with faults.  I'll be joining the applause for him.

Most of this....I don't believe for one minute MON sat there thinking right I'll wait for the right time whereby I can cause maximum disruption and then I'm of.

For me its obvious Randy Lerner and others moved him into a position where he couldn't stay, call it conspiracy or whatever you like but put the picture together and everything points to a set of manipulative individuals in the background trying to bring about someones downfall, phucking evil if you ask me and generally in life what goes around comes around and I think its fair to say Lerner and Co are getting there just deserts, then you look at the award given to MON in the case afterwards, didn't we end up paying him, we don't know the intricacies of that but its fair to say MON was found in the right.

So as for MON coming back to Villa, I hold no grudge in fact we had 4 great seasons under MON, not the best football, but dam site better than now, that only now we are seeing just how good they was, of course you'll get the  banging the head against the wall mentality that will only want to see one side of the story, in which case MON will always be in the wrong even if Lerner came out and said "actually it was all my fault", but there you go.

You're certainly only interested in one side of the story. Of course he could have stayed. He could have got on with the job and worked under the sort of limitations every other manager, indeed everyone else who has a job, has to. No employee should be allowed to pick their own conditions and budget - everyone else accepts that except O'Neill and those supporters who believe for whatever reason that everything the club does is wrong.

"Manipulative,"  "evil," "there (sic) just deserts" and you accuse others of being blinkered.

I'm pointing out to you there are 2 sides to the story as opposed to the dead head attitude that MON is wrong in all things, read my post and you'll see that's precisely what I'm saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong the hearing that occurred after the game who did they find in favour of.

As for him getting on with the job you've either lived a very sheltered life are your talking rubbish, many many many times in all kind of situations and circumstances surrounding all manner of things sometimes sometimes you are left with no alternative to go a certain way, if you look back at the previous 6 months of MON's tenure Randy Lerner made it publicly clear he was no longer prepared to support MON and he didn't walk out then, it took him another 6 months.

There is way more to this than meets the eye that either you or I are privvy to.

The 2 sides to this story are that they are both as bad as each other, that said looking at the track record of the club since MON's departure I know where my sympathies lies with.

Under MON we had Europe, we had good league standings, we had winning ways, we had Cup finals and we where a great opposition to anybody out there. Look at us now.

[Greg N'Ash]

Ideally there should be a 60 seconds of booing 6 minutes in to signify his inability to get us anywhere near the top 4 or the 83rd minute to commemorate how much (nett) money he pissed up the wall (I'd include what he wasted on wages as well but i can't see the game having 30 minutes of stoppage time.)

Personally i'm less bothered about him since he got the Sunderland gig as his faults are already becoming apparent. The recent dismantling of his side twice by Everton is a case in point. His star is very much on the wane and though i'm  sort of hoping Sunderland will go barmy this summer and give him the keys to the kitty, I can't say i particularly want to see them get destroyed financially. As for those Villa fans who can't see the connection between what he did then to where we are now, I feel sorry for them really. If we'd nearly gone bust winning the league and the Fa cup then i'd perhaps understand their continued admiration for the guy but  the history books will confirm he finished as high as DOL did with no money. Which really tells you all you need to know about him.

[The Laughing Policeman]

We should do what we do for the present manager and carry on as if he wasn't there. No booing no applause.
Save your energy for getting behind the team at kick off and roar them on to victory. That would be an excellent way of giving him the finger.

[N'ZMAV]

i' going to put a massive bet on us beating sunderland, i really think we will win this one, i might even go a full £10'

Now that is wasting money, MON style, in fact...

[Ger Regan]

Ideally there should be a 60 seconds of booing 6 minutes in to signify his inability to get us anywhere near the top 4 or the 83rd minute to commemorate how much (nett) money he pissed up the wall (I'd include what he wasted on wages as well but i can't see the game having 30 minutes of stoppage time.)

Personally i'm less bothered about him since he got the Sunderland gig as his faults are already becoming apparent. The recent dismantling of his side twice by Everton is a case in point. His star is very much on the wane and though i'm  sort of hoping Sunderland will go barmy this summer and give him the keys to the kitty, I can't say i particularly want to see them get destroyed financially. As for those Villa fans who can't see the connection between what he did then to where we are now, I feel sorry for them really. If we'd nearly gone bust winning the league and the Fa cup then i'd perhaps understand their continued admiration for the guy but  the history books will confirm he finished as high as DOL did with no money. Which really tells you all you need to know about him.

That's the big one for me. I really can't understand how people can't see that.

[Ger Regan]

Also, I'm laughing like a drain at our involvement in Europe being highlighted as a plus point to his reign.

[Rick_avfc]

I, for one, will neither boo or applaud him.  Yes he did a good for us and we had some really good times under his stewardship but then theres the whole act of him walking out on us 5 days before the season and leaving us in the shit.  I will use my energy cheering on the claret and blue army and hope for 3 points. 
Dont get me wrong, I still rate him as a manager as he seems to have a nack at getting the best out of players and to a certain extent, wish he was still incharge as there was a sense of belief when he was here that we could get something out of a game.  For me, Its time to move on from the hatred towards him as its been about 1 1/2 years now.  We need to look towards the future.