McLeish wants confidence

[villan1975]

with the resources we've got -i.e. no money, a load of rubbish players we can't get shot off, and inconsistent kids, we're about where we should be. Only thing that will change that long term is spending power unless Mcleish is a master whealer dealer in the transfer market. i'm not hopeful

I don't agree.  Purely based on squad comparison we should comfortably be in the top 10.  I wouldn't swap too many players with Swansea or Sunderland, currently sat in 8th and 9th respectively.  We're a long way off challenging for Europe again, but we do have a squad capable of more than the manager is currently achieving.

yeh but we're 4 points off sunderland who seem to be suffering from pube-head's magic touch wearing off and who says swansea will finish 8th?. Given, in real terms we've spent far less than any team round us or indeed the league, would you be happy with lower than last season?

Not really no.  Mind you, I'm not really happy with much of what is happening at VP these days.

you and me both, but you can't have ambitions for the top of the table if you're transfer budget is non-existant. Unless we get a manager who's a miracle worker i can't see much changing. another guy may finish higher than Mcliesh but not by much. and as for this playing entertaining football lark, MON couldn't manage it that often even with the keys to Lerner's wallet. To be fair to MON he's hardly been the only manager who'd had a fair wedge and still served up shite

Sorry Greg but must disagree as the premiership is and has been infinetley poor this year.
The manager does not need to be a miracle worker and only really needs to be tactically astute and have a good plan as Norwich and Swansea have proven.The fact of the matter is that very few of the teams outside the top 6 have the attacking quality that we have at our disposal.

[Greg N'Ash]

*sigh*

Norwich are 3 points above us - there's a good chance they'll finish below us come May. They're hardly playing football like Barcelona either or I don't remember masses of praise being heaped on them on here when we beat them. Nor indeed  comments about Swansea's resemblence to the Cruyff era Dutch side, even though they beat us

[villan1975]

*sigh*

Norwich are 3 points above us - there's a good chance they'll finish below us come May. They're hardly playing football like Barcelona either or I don't remember masses of praise being heaped on them on here when we beat them. Nor indeed  comments about Swansea's resemblence to the Cruyff era Dutch side, even though they beat us

My point was that you do not need vast amounts of money to aim to be in the top half.
The fact of the matter is that they have both come up from the championship and have spent far less than we have.Without bothering to look because it is late I would imagine we have spent more this season than the majority of the premiership..... *sigh*

[Eigentor]

I actually agree with Greg. McLeish is not the unmitigated disaster he's made out to be. He's a lower mid-table quality manager leading a low mid-table quality squad to a lower mid-table finish. An upper mid-table manager would perhaps led us to a mid-table finish, but we're only four points off ninth anyway.

Also, Swansea and Norwich has had their managers for several seasons; McLeish is in his first season. Admittedly, MON is in his first season at Sunderland, but we all know that he is good at improving a below-average team to slightly above average. The reason we don't like him is that he is incapable of building on that no matter how much money he is given (and that he left us in the shit 10 days before the start of a season).

[Mister E]

I actually agree with Greg. McLeish is not the unmitigated disaster he's made out to be. He's a lower mid-table quality manager leading a low mid-table quality squad to a lower mid-table finish. An upper mid-table manager would perhaps led us to a mid-table finish, but we're only four points off ninth anyway.

Also, Swansea and Norwich has had their managers for several seasons; McLeish is in his first season. Admittedly, MON is in his first season at Sunderland, but we all know that he is good at improving a below-average team to slightly above average. The reason we don't like him is that he is incapable of building on that no matter how much money he is given (and that he left us in the shit 10 days before the start of a season).

5 days.

[Mister E]

"McLeish wants confidence".

You might want confidence but it's not something people can simply summon up!
Confidence comes from consistently good personal and team performance; it comes - to different degrees - from a sense of well-being and personal self-esteem. It comes from having someone in a position of responsibility to find the right motivational hot buttons for you.

So, it's up to McL to instill confidence in the players, and for the players to help each other to develop a sense of confidence.

[Greg N'Ash]

*sigh*

Norwich are 3 points above us - there's a good chance they'll finish below us come May. They're hardly playing football like Barcelona either or I don't remember masses of praise being heaped on them on here when we beat them. Nor indeed  comments about Swansea's resemblence to the Cruyff era Dutch side, even though they beat us

My point was that you do not need vast amounts of money to aim to be in the top half.
The fact of the matter is that they have both come up from the championship and have spent far less than we have.Without bothering to look because it is late I would imagine we have spent more this season than the majority of the premiership..... *sigh*

Buh?? We've spent nothing. Show me where Swansea or Norwich have sold their best players and are currently 15m in profit in transfers. NO-ONE has spent less money on thier team this season than us

[Eigentor]

Greg, you're over-emphasizing the point about negative net spend. Using your logic Man Utd should have been relegated the season they sold Ronaldo (because of the negative net spend). The important factor is that we lost three first-choice midfielders and only signed one (N'Zogbia). Maybe the most important loss was NRC. He is a very limited footballer, but also a consistent Premier League central midfielder, whereas one of his replacements, Delph, has not been playing at PL level, while the other, Herd, is less consistent.

[Greg N'Ash]

i just think if you've been doing what we have for the last year i.e. selling good players and replacing them with cheaper, crapper versions, or not replacing them at all, then sooner or later it must cross your mind that maybe we're unlikely to get better league position wise

[Eigentor]

I agree with that, but more specifically, there has been a significant drop in quality in central midfield. In the MON era we had our best player beside Petrov, first Barry, then Milner (who while not being as good as Barry was a better foil for Petrov). Since then Petrov has aged, and the quality of his partner has been dropping steadily season after season. Herd is a good prospect, but at the moment, nothing more than that. And for the first part of the season we played Delph, and that was, sadly, something close to a complete fiasco.

[TheSandman]

Ah good, the return of the infallible Gnasher logic. I agree that we have replaced our players with poorer versions and that we have downsized somewhat. However, I think it is a very strange logic that says Swansea and Norwich should be above us solely because they have a larger net spend. If you look at the players McLeish brought in N'Zogbia, Hutton, Jenas and Given we see four solid, reliable premier league players. Not players of quality who will fire us to the top six, probably not the best possible players we could have bought, but solid to good premier league players. It's not like we've replaced our better players with some guys from league one. If you look at clubs above us they have a poorer quality of player. Some of their players are not premier league standard, a lot of them are playing above themselves. Our players are probably better yet we find ourselves lower in the league than them with players who seem to be playing below themselves. These are things you have to look at the manager.

[The Left Side]

Our confidence will be through the roof today, bring on the next two games!

[Greg N'Ash]

Ah good, the return of the infallible Gnasher logic. I agree that we have replaced our players with poorer versions and that we have downsized somewhat. However, I think it is a very strange logic that says Swansea and Norwich should be above us solely because they have a larger net spend. If you look at the players McLeish brought in N'Zogbia, Hutton, Jenas and Given we see four solid, reliable premier league players. Not players of quality who will fire us to the top six, probably not the best possible players we could have bought, but solid to good premier league players. It's not like we've replaced our better players with some guys from league one. If you look at clubs above us they have a poorer quality of player. Some of their players are not premier league standard, a lot of them are playing above themselves. Our players are probably better yet we find ourselves lower in the league than them with players who seem to be playing below themselves. These are things you have to look at the manager.

Don't agree the likes of Swansea and Norwich haven't got premier league standard players - if they stay up then by definition they'll be at least that standard. and it wouldn't be the first time teams came up and proved to be better than the teams formerly above them. Anyway if we should be looking to them as our way forward then how about following some of their methods. Both Swansea and Norwich use this radical new system called "reserves". which i gather are like youth players but they have actually played more than 5 games at a decent level and some are even over 20. apparently you use these to provide competition for the first team and cover for injuries. Lambert i know is a big believer in this system which i believe he picked up while studying the continental game.