Is the fans expectations half the problem at Villa?

[dave.woodhall]

Got rid? I hope you are taking the piss.

[hawkeye]

Messiah? I hope you are taking piss.

yes, i thought you new me better than that

[hawkeye]

Got rid? I hope you are taking the piss.

ditto

although i must add that i have become more suspicious of the events leading to the beloved Martins departure based on the way the club has been led oc=ver the last couple of years

[Greg N'Ash]

6th-10th and playing much better football than we currently do. And looking there is something approaching a longterm plan in place rather than looking like we are just stumbling around in the dark with no idea what the next step should be.

see that does surprise me because we finished 9th with Houllier but he had Young, Downing NRC etc.. to call on. and yet you think the lowest we should finish is one place lower than last season and possibly 3 places higher?

Yes. MON left 5 days before the season, GH came in when the window was shut. We had the worst injury run i've ever known. There are 3 players gone from last season that I remotely give a shit aren't at VP.

AM had a full preseason. Everyone else bar Citeh and possibly Spurs and Newcastle are worse than last season.

As for 6th place. Do you think our squad should be 14 points and 9 places worse than current 6th place side Newcastle?

Depends if you think Newcastle will finish in 6th and that far ahead of us. I don't.  I can't really agree with you on where you think the team should be, because while last season was a nightmare for injuries, munity's, and stroppy pube-headed managers walking out on us on a whim, i thought the side was shot the season before and even if MON had stayed major surgery was needed. as i said in my opening post, i think we're a mid-table side and most people seem to agree. Thing is if we win at blackburn we'll be a mid-table side.  If we don't, we'll probably still be within a win of being a mid-table side so you sort of wonder why when he's 3 points within meeting our expectations, why everyone wants him out so much.

[TheSandman]

The shit football, the defeatist attitude and the defensive tactics?

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

I don't expect us to finish ahead of Man City, Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea after 38 games.

I expect us to be in the mix amongst the next rank though - Spurs (most seasons), Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle.

I also expect us to try to win every match, all the time recognising that we won't always do so. 

I'd love for us to play free-flowing, attacking football; but that's not necessary if a tight, defensive stance is bringing us results.

I'd also like a cup every few years.  We've not won anything since 1996.  (I don't count the Inter Toto).  Or at least to TRY to win one.

So finishing in the bottom half of the table is not acceptable or reasonable. Being out-competed and outplayed by Norwich, Swansea, Fulham, Stoke and West Brom is not acceptable.

[PeterWithesShin]

I agree about major surgery. I also had a reasonable amount of confidence in GH being the man to do it. I have very little in AM being the one to do it.

Everything points to Newcastle being more than capable of finishing that far ahead of us.

And how will a win against Blackburn make us midtable? We could still be 15th if Swansea and Albion both win, best case scenario is it puts us 13th. Surely midtable is 9th-11th, maybe 12th at a stretch?

[hawkeye]

6th-10th and playing much better football than we currently do. And looking there is something approaching a longterm plan in place rather than looking like we are just stumbling around in the dark with no idea what the next step should be.

see that does surprise me because we finished 9th with Houllier but he had Young, Downing NRC etc.. to call on. and yet you think the lowest we should finish is one place lower than last season and possibly 3 places higher?

Yes. MON left 5 days before the season, GH came in when the window was shut. We had the worst injury run i've ever known. There are 3 players gone from last season that I remotely give a shit aren't at VP.

AM had a full preseason. Everyone else bar Citeh and possibly Spurs and Newcastle are worse than last season.

As for 6th place. Do you think our squad should be 14 points and 9 places worse than current 6th place side Newcastle?

Depends if you think Newcastle will finish in 6th and that far ahead of us. I don't.  I can't really agree with you on where you think the team should be, because while last season was a nightmare for injuries, munity's, and stroppy pube-headed managers walking out on us on a whim, i thought the side was shot the season before and even if MON had stayed major surgery was needed. as i said in my opening post, i think we're a mid-table side and most people seem to agree. Thing is if we win at blackburn we'll be a mid-table side.  If we don't, we'll probably still be within a win of being a mid-table side so you sort of wonder why when he's 3 points within meeting our expectations, why everyone wants him out so much.

oh come on, have you watched us lately?

[WA Villan]

It was interesting to hear Paul Merson saying that the reason Villa, Albion and Wolves were so poor at home was because of the fans.

Perhaps it is the pysche of the midland people. At the moment we should be a solid mid table team. At this moment in time we have no direction and there is no obvious style or plan to the way we are playing.
Would love Gordon Cowans and Kmac to have a go with us fans giving them some patience and time to develop and no pressure. We need to recruit from within and keep it all in house. I would say most Villa fans would prefer to take a gamble on something like this than have a known quantity like Macleish or Houllier. We need to find our own Lambert etc.

[Greg N'Ash]

shit football - well most the managers we've had since  Saunders could be brought up on that charge. Likewise the tactics, and DOL had a good line in defeatist attitude, not to mention MON in Europe and GH at times.

The shit football, the defeatist attitude and the defensive tactics?

[Greg N'Ash]

I agree about major surgery. I also had a reasonable amount of confidence in GH being the man to do it. I have very little in AM being the one to do it.

Everything points to Newcastle being more than capable of finishing that far ahead of us.

And how will a win against Blackburn make us midtable? We could still be 15th if Swansea and Albion both win, best case scenario is it puts us 13th. Surely midtable is 9th-11th, maybe 12th at 1 stretch?

well depends how exact you want to be. 10th is mid-table technically but i always use it as a term for teams in the middle third of the table and i don't think we're far off that currently. Certainly nearer that than the bottom three

[Greg N'Ash]

I don't expect us to finish ahead of Man City, Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea after 38 games.

I expect us to be in the mix amongst the next rank though - Spurs (most seasons), Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle.

well there you go. basically you're saying that even when we've sold all our best players we should still be competing with teams that will finish 5th or 6th. I can't see it myself

[PeterWithesShin]

A bit more exact than 8th-14th ;-) Not sure how the team that finished 8th can say they had a midtable season, just like the team that finished 14th did.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning.  It's nothing of the kind.  The game is about glory.  It's about doing things in style, with a flourish; it's about going out to beat the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."  Danny Blanchflower

Just stumbled across this quote.  It could have fitted neatly into any one of half a dozen furious threads currently running, but I've put it here because it sums up what my expectations are.  Namely that we have a go at playing some positive football.  It's not so much about league position or cup wins, it's more about attitude and approach.  Surely the minimum we should all expect is for our team to attempt to win football matches.  Is that so unrealistic an expectation?

[Greg N'Ash]

A bit more exact than 8th-14th ;-) Not sure how the team that finished 8th can say they had a midtable season, just like the team that finished 14th did.

True. Its more an average isn't it. you're in that also-ran group, and before the last month we were in that group - you could say we're still at the very bottom of it. none of them are going to worry chelsea in 5th but none of them look likely to get dragged into a relegation fight certanly. If we don't win soon we will be in that relegation fight but if we do, we'll be back in the thick of the also rans