Does Shay Given shout enough?

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Posted this somewhere in the midst of the post-match thread, but I'm a persistent bugger and wondered if it warranted a discussion of its own. 

How much do we blame Shay Given for our Chucklevision defending?  He seems to have spent his whole career behind a comedy defence (the Newcastle one was particularly inept).  Coincidence?  I had this debate a couple of years back with a Citeh fan I know when Given was there; we concluded that he's a great shot stopper but his command of his area and his defence is pretty poor - which is why he has so many shots to stop.  I mean, I think Lev Yashin would struggle behind our gormless defenders, but I do wonder if they'd be a bit less prone to cock-ups with a proper shouter and organiser in goal.  I mean, did Warnock get a shout to tell him he had time?  Or to head it away from goal, rather than into it?  Dunne was never getting there, Given could see there was no QPR player bearing down on Warnock - did he let him know?  I thought we looked a bit more comfortable at the back when Guzan was in goal.  Maybe Brad's got a bit more presence.  Just a thought.

[PeterWithesShin]

1, 2, 2, 0, 1, 2.

That was what we conceded in league games Brad started while Given was out. Half the time we still needed to score 3 to win. I think it's the defensive unit as a whole and don't think changing 1 part will make a fat lot of difference.

[CorkVilla]

The Irish team have one of the best defensive records in international football in recent years and alot of this is down to Given. He probably is a bit quiet compared to many other Premiership keepers but I still think he's better than most and is easily the most reliable player we have at the back.

[philthebar]

I've put this in other threads.

Good shot stopper, doesn't command area, doesn't direct defenders.

By not commanding the area, he is forced to make saves that he needn't make, which makes him look better than he is.

[Matt C]

Given is the least of our problems. Our defensive woes are down to how we defend as a unit rather than any individual.

[Summers]

Couple of times last night he could have made the defences job a bit easier but giving them a shout. Hutton played the ball out for a couple of pointless corners, but he had no idea he had other options.

[Dave]

I've put this in other threads.

Good shot stopper, doesn't command area, doesn't direct defenders.

By not commanding the area, he is forced to make saves that he needn't make, which makes him look better than he is.

Exactly right.

However, if he were able to command his area and organise the defence better then he would be one of the very best in the world and would probably have been in goal for ManYoo or Barcelona for the last decade.

[philthebar]

However, if he were able to command his area and organise the defence better then he would be one of the very best in the world and would probably have been in goal for ManYoo or Barcelona for the last decade.
[/quote]

Good point!

[Greg N'Ash]

Don't remember Given making many appearances last season and the defence was still shocking for the most part. There's not much a keeper can do when your centre half jumps for the ball and completely misses it and then your left-back pulls off an superb header. When they panned to AM on the telly, i was half-expecting him to be screaming "See...thats how you do it" at Ivanhoe

[Dave]

Don't remember Given making many appearances last season and the defence was still shocking for the most part. There's not much a keeper can do when your centre half jumps for the ball and completely misses it and then your left-back pulls off an superb header.

That's because Friedel is also a very decent keeper. Not as good a shot-stopper as Given but his oft-ridiculed 'away' shouts are just the sort of thing that stop last night's calamity from happening - tell the defenders exactly what you expect them to do.

[Greg N'Ash]

I would have thought it would be self-evident what was required. The own-goal fuck-up had two of them to deal with it and no pressure from the opposition at all. A basic clearance was all that was needed and Given was exactly where you'd want him

[Dave]

I would have thought it would be self-evident what was required. The own-goal fuck-up had two of them to deal with it and no pressure from the opposition at all. A basic clearance was all that was needed and Given was exactly where you'd want him

Agreed - but he still doesn't communicate or organise as much or as well as Friedel did/does.

And it's not as if Friedel was the absolute master of it either.

[Neil Hawkes]

I've put this in other threads.

Good shot stopper, doesn't command area, doesn't direct defenders.

By not commanding the area, he is forced to make saves that he needn't make, which makes him look better than he is.

I've yet to find a Newcastle supporter that doesn't regret him leaving and they had some shambolic defences during his tenure

[Dave]

Suits me - I'd swap him for Krul in a heartbeat.

[SoccerHQ]

Friedel and Given both at the same level...both been and still are excellent keepers but both have flaws which mean neither have lasted too long at a top club.