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Author Topic: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious  (Read 14260 times)

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 09:32:12 PM »
Maybe they do work on it in training  (I can't believe they don't).

But there seems to be a rotten core at the club, and their fecklessness/ disinterest looks to be contagious. 

Houllier took stick after the Bolton game for his "we'll address it in the summer,"  quote.
From me included.   But it seems that rather than tactics and training ground work, he knew that particular issue was down to the personnel involved.  And only a change of personnel would rectify it.

Offline bertlambshank

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 09:43:51 PM »
What made me larf yesterday,in the 2nd half there was one corner with nobody on the front post( or anywhere near it) and Bannon on the back stick.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 09:44:45 PM »
Houllier took stick after the Bolton game for his "we'll address it in the summer,"  quote.
From me included.   But it seems that rather than tactics and training ground work, he knew that particular issue was down to the personnel involved.  And only a change of personnel would rectify it.

I mention that in my bit in the new H&V.

I think we all thought he meant "sort it through training". I now reckon it was "ship the useless fuckers out"

Online olaftab

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 10:04:46 PM »
Zonal marking man to man marking I don't know what works but I do know that a corner against us is as good as a penalty unless the opposition make a mess of it.




Offline OzVilla

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 10:15:01 PM »
Houllier took stick after the Bolton game for his "we'll address it in the summer,"  quote.
From me included.   But it seems that rather than tactics and training ground work, he knew that particular issue was down to the personnel involved.  And only a change of personnel would rectify it.

I mention that in my bit in the new H&V.

I think we all thought he meant "sort it through training". I now reckon it was "ship the useless fuckers out"

I think that now too.  Doesn't excuse the fact that Houllier abdicated responsibility for sorting it out at the time but the more i see of the chuckle twins the more i'm convinced GH had their card marked.   

Offline hawkeye

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2011, 10:28:40 PM »
Zonal marking isnt just Zonal, Dunne was marking and didnt bother to go with him.

Offline Eigentor

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2011, 10:34:25 PM »
Despite his occasional defeatism (Liverpool away, Man City in the cup) Houllier was probably onto something when he dropped Dunne for his poor performances, and Warnock for his poor attitude.

McLeish will have to do something similar to regain respect. I think a lot of us expected poor results and a less than exciting brand of football when he arrived. But some will have been surprised by his readiness to accept defeat, and his unwillingness to sort out underperforming players.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2011, 10:42:00 PM »
Zonal marking man to man marking I don't know what works but I do know that a corner against us is as good as a penalty unless the opposition make a mess of it.



Before yesterday when was the last time we conceded directly from a corner? In some games it's felt like that but in others they've done their jobs correctly.

There seems no rhyme nor reason to it.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2011, 10:53:02 PM »
Zonal marking man to man marking I don't know what works but I do know that a corner against us is as good as a penalty unless the opposition make a mess of it.



Before yesterday when was the last time we conceded directly from a corner? In some games it's felt like that but in others they've done their jobs correctly.

There seems no rhyme nor reason to it.

38% of all goals we've conceded this season have come from corners. That was before Sunday, and is more than any other team in the PL.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2011, 11:02:10 PM »
I accept that but we've had plenty of games where we've defended them perfectly adequately. That's the point I'm making, they get it right some weeks. I know we're mostly in a mood where we don't want to accept that it isn't all shit all of the time but that doesn't get us very far. Some games we defend ok, some games we make terrible blunders amidst defending well and sometimes we seem to struggle for 90 minutes.

Why?

Online Clampy

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2011, 11:05:16 PM »
Luke Young has been a big loss i think. We always seemed a more organised defence whenever he played. I don't think Dunne and Collins are helped by two  very average full backs.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2011, 11:08:43 PM »
I accept that but we've had plenty of games where we've defended them perfectly adequately. That's the point I'm making, they get it right some weeks. I know we're mostly in a mood where we don't want to accept that it isn't all shit all of the time but that doesn't get us very far. Some games we defend ok, some games we make terrible blunders amidst defending well and sometimes we seem to struggle for 90 minutes.

Why?

Why the need for "I know we're mostly in a mood where we don't want to accept that it isn't all shit all of the time but that doesn't get us very far"?  Why not just take people's opinons at face value? It's not like people are inventing this stuff for the sake of it, in some attempt to be globally doomy.

As for why, well, in some games, we get away with it, that's why it doesn't always happen, but whatever the reason, a defence that leaks goals from corners to that extent clearly has significant problems.

It'd be bad enough if the problems were with just the defence, but they're not. We're pretty poor in most of the other areas, too.

We can't pass the ball, we can't keep it when we have it, our defending - when we manage to do it - consists largely of booting it straight back at the opposition so it can come back again, we don't engage in any movement off the ball, and we haven't the first clue how to get it to the strikers. Most of the passes we make seem to be, at best, 50/50 balls.

In fact, there's one reason the defence is so rubbish, we invite pressure onto it by constantly giving the ball away cheaply.

Whatever the issue is, why do the same four start every week? Cuellar and Clark are available too. I wonder what Dunne and Collins would need to do to actually get dropped.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2011, 11:09:16 PM »
Luke Young has been a big loss i think. We always seemed a more organised defence whenever he played. I don't think Dunne and Collins are helped by two  very average full backs.

Hutton is not even average. I've never known a player so consistently get pulled out of position.

Online Chris Smith

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2011, 11:12:55 PM »
Luke Young has been a big loss i think. We always seemed a more organised defence whenever he played. I don't think Dunne and Collins are helped by two  very average full backs.

I don't see what that has to do with defending corners which is what prompted this thread.

Offline Somniloquism

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Re: Guardian highlights the bleedin' obvious
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2011, 11:19:11 PM »
Luke Young has been a big loss i think. We always seemed a more organised defence whenever he played. I don't think Dunne and Collins are helped by two  very average full backs.

I don't see what that has to do with defending corners which is what prompted this thread.

The highlighted bit maybe? But as Young used to be left back and that meant Cueller was RB, we had the extra head in the box at corners.

 


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