This week's Pressing matter

[Toronto Villa]

yep, said much the same after the Spurs game. I didn't want to stick his head on a pitch fork when he came. I was and still am more than willing to give him time to build something and appreciate that he is having to do so with restricted means. But that doesn't excuse the type of tactics he's recently employed or his insistence on playing a certain style despite the numerous more talented players he has at his disposal. Right now Hutton is an utter liability and Heskey simply isn't in the least bit effective where he is. I'd sooner we opened up, played 4-4-2 or any other formation that allows our creativity to come to the fore. This season, I care more about the future than the present and allowing us to become an attacking outfit that has some defensive discipline. It makes us so much easier to watch. McLeish needs to be more interested about winning than scared of losing. Only then will our play improve.

[pauliewalnuts]

yep, said much the same after the Spurs game. I didn't want to stick his head on a pitch fork when he came. I was and still am more than willing to give him time to build something and appreciate that he is having to do so with restricted means. But that doesn't excuse the type of tactics he's recently employed or his insistence on playing a certain style despite the numerous more talented players he has at his disposal. Right now Hutton is an utter liability and Heskey simply isn't in the least bit effective where he is. I'd sooner we opened up, played 4-4-2 or any other formation that allows our creativity to come to the fore. This season, I care more about the future than the present and allowing us to become an attacking outfit that has some defensive discipline. It makes us so much easier to watch. McLeish needs to be more interested about winning than scared of losing. Only then will our play improve.

Last year, under Houllier, we put in some stinking performances, but at least we knew what he was trying to do - even if he was failing to do it for most of the season.

The problem with AM is that this is what he does - this is the way he has always got his teams to play. We moan about Heskey ahead of Bannan, but this is far from a new thing for McLeish, he has always operated this way.

My dad is a nose, and listening to people talk about the way we play this season is *exactly* the way he would moan about Blues when AM was there.

It is a truly mind boggling appointment, it makes zero sense. Even if you're prepared to overlook the Small Heath connection (and I am, even if many aren't), there was the fact that he'd got them relegated twice. Not only had he done this, but he'd done it playing a terrible brand of football (their "performance" at Spurs on the last day of last season said it all).

Oh, and then there's a fact that we'd set our sights pretty low on Martinez, but at least saw him as someone who tried to - even if he failed - get his teams playing football, only to be told he wasn't interested, and then turn to McLeish, whose footballing style is not going to get anyone buying tickets - even if they were prepared to overlook his last employer. So, after going through pain with Houllier but showing signs of modernising the club, we go way back and appoint an old fashioned, traditional British manager, a relic of times gone by.

Although the other question is why we were so bothered with two managers who had a record of poking around the relegation zone in the first place.

It really is utterly, utterly dreadful management by Randy. What on earth was he thinking?

We seem to be run by well intentioned buffoons who are well intentioned but don't know their arses from their elbows. Even his interview last week managed to make the appointment look even more half witted with his soppy eyed nonsense about a letter from Sir Alex.

I was one of his staunchest supporters for a long time, but I now have absolutely zero confidence in Lerner, or the people he surrounds himself with.

[PaulWinch again]

yep, said much the same after the Spurs game. I didn't want to stick his head on a pitch fork when he came. I was and still am more than willing to give him time to build something and appreciate that he is having to do so with restricted means. But that doesn't excuse the type of tactics he's recently employed or his insistence on playing a certain style despite the numerous more talented players he has at his disposal. Right now Hutton is an utter liability and Heskey simply isn't in the least bit effective where he is. I'd sooner we opened up, played 4-4-2 or any other formation that allows our creativity to come to the fore. This season, I care more about the future than the present and allowing us to become an attacking outfit that has some defensive discipline. It makes us so much easier to watch. McLeish needs to be more interested about winning than scared of losing. Only then will our play improve.

Last year, under Houllier, we put in some stinking performances, but at least we knew what he was trying to do - even if he was failing to do it for most of the season.

The problem with AM is that this is what he does - this is the way he has always got his teams to play. We moan about Heskey ahead of Bannan, but this is far from a new thing for McLeish, he has always operated this way.

My dad is a nose, and listening to people talk about the way we play this season is *exactly* the way he would moan about Blues when AM was there.

It is a truly mind boggling appointment, it makes zero sense. Even if you're prepared to overlook the Small Heath connection (and I am, even if many aren't), there was the fact that he'd got them relegated twice. Not only had he done this, but he'd done it playing a terrible brand of football (their "performance" at Spurs on the last day of last season said it all).

Oh, and then there's a fact that we'd set our sights pretty low on Martinez, but at least saw him as someone who tried to - even if he failed - get his teams playing football, only to be told he wasn't interested, and then turn to McLeish, whose footballing style is not going to get anyone buying tickets - even if they were prepared to overlook his last employer. So, after going through pain with Houllier but showing signs of modernising the club, we go way back and appoint an old fashioned, traditional British manager, a relic of times gone by.

Although the other question is why we were so bothered with two managers who had a record of poking around the relegation zone in the first place.

It really is utterly, utterly dreadful management by Randy. What on earth was he thinking?

We seem to be run by well intentioned buffoons who are well intentioned but don't know their arses from their elbows. Even his interview last week managed to make the appointment look even more half witted with his soppy eyed nonsense about a letter from Sir Alex.

I was one of his staunchest supporters for a long time, but I now have absolutely zero confidence in Lerner, or the people he surrounds himself with.

Like a couple of other posts today, this pretty much sums up how I feel on the situation.

[Toronto Villa]

I don't mind so much boring myself to victory. I just hate it when I'm bored to draws and defeats.

I read some of AM's comments regarding Jenas and Bannan from this weekend. I don't care about words. I want to see it in the team selections going forward.

[Chris Smith]

The owner has made decisions regarding the financial side of the club and as such made 90% of the names suggested at the time complete non-starters.  Houllier was close to making a complete pig's ear of it with a team that had Downing and Young in it, imagine what he'd be like without them?

McLeish strikes me as a pragmatist and he was appointed at a time when pragmatism is what is needed. If, as some suspect, there is some wriggle room next summer then we'll see how he fares when given the opportunity to shape the squad. Until then I expect more of the same up and down performances and (much) more of the shrill voices picking holes in everything he does. I think Randy is strong enough to resist them.

[Chris Harte]

We seem to be run by well intentioned buffoons who are well intentioned but don't know their arses from their elbows.

I think this is a pretty apt appraisal of where we are at at the moment.

[pauliewalnuts]

The owner has made decisions regarding the financial side of the club and as such made 90% of the names suggested at the time complete non-starters.  Houllier was close to making a complete pig's ear of it with a team that had Downing and Young in it, imagine what he'd be like without them?

McLeish strikes me as a pragmatist and he was appointed at a time when pragmatism is what is needed. If, as some suspect, there is some wriggle room next summer then we'll see how he fares when given the opportunity to shape the squad. Until then I expect more of the same up and down performances and (much) more of the shrill voices picking holes in everything he does. I think Randy is strong enough to resist them.

He's got some decent footballing players, but he chooses not to use them.

I can't believe anyone really thinks there's a good reason to play Emile Heskey in midfield. Right now, McLeish is doing the absolute worst thing he could do - setting us up in the image of his Blues team. That's the one thing that is going to convert all those prepared to give him a chance to the "want him out" camp.

As for the implied suggestion that McLeish was the best we could get (the 90% non starters thing), well, clearly you've a dim view of the club and the progress of the last few years to even start to believe that. Why weren't you championing his cause before he was appointed? In fact, why was nobody?

[TheSandman]

Last year, under Houllier, we put in some stinking performances, but at least we knew what he was trying to do - even if he was failing to do it for most of the season.

The problem with AM is that this is what he does - this is the way he has always got his teams to play. We moan about Heskey ahead of Bannan, but this is far from a new thing for McLeish, he has always operated this way.

My dad is a nose, and listening to people talk about the way we play this season is *exactly* the way he would moan about Blues when AM was there.

It is a truly mind boggling appointment, it makes zero sense. Even if you're prepared to overlook the Small Heath connection (and I am, even if many aren't), there was the fact that he'd got them relegated twice. Not only had he done this, but he'd done it playing a terrible brand of football (their "performance" at Spurs on the last day of last season said it all).

Oh, and then there's a fact that we'd set our sights pretty low on Martinez, but at least saw him as someone who tried to - even if he failed - get his teams playing football, only to be told he wasn't interested, and then turn to McLeish, whose footballing style is not going to get anyone buying tickets - even if they were prepared to overlook his last employer. So, after going through pain with Houllier but showing signs of modernising the club, we go way back and appoint an old fashioned, traditional British manager, a relic of times gone by.

Although the other question is why we were so bothered with two managers who had a record of poking around the relegation zone in the first place.

It really is utterly, utterly dreadful management by Randy. What on earth was he thinking?

We seem to be run by well intentioned buffoons who are well intentioned but don't know their arses from their elbows. Even his interview last week managed to make the appointment look even more half witted with his soppy eyed nonsense about a letter from Sir Alex.

I was one of his staunchest supporters for a long time, but I now have absolutely zero confidence in Lerner, or the people he surrounds himself with.

Agree wholeheartedly with all of this.

[KevinGage]

Hard to disagree with most of that Paulie.

I too was prepared (still am, in fact) to cut him some slack, and hope that better natural resources =  better end product compared to his B-lose output.

But fcuk me he doesn't half make it difficult.

I mentioned on another board, that part of RL's biggest consideration -as he flagged himself with the statement last week-  was to set aside short term gain with the focus on long term development.  Or to balance 'the hysterical need to win urgently' with not wasting the good work and progress of the Acadamy.

Which is fine, but I don't see how the style of football McLeish sides are renowned for is consistent with our long term aims in that regard.  I fact, if I could devise a system that would virtually ensure we don't maximise the ability of the likes of Gardner, Bannan, Albrighton and co it wouldn't be a million miles the current hit and not much hope  scuffling murderball.

[pauliewalnuts]

I too was prepared (still am, in fact) to cut him some slack, and hope that better natural resources =  better end product compared to his B-lose output.

But fcuk me he doesn't half make it difficult.

I mentioned on another board, that part of RL's biggest consideration -as he flagged himself with the statement last week-  was to set aside short term gain with the focus on long term development.  Or to balance 'the hysterical need to win urgently' with not wasting the good work and progress of the Acadamy.

Which is fine, but I don't see how the style of football McLeish sides are renowned for is consistent with our long term aims in that regard.  I fact, if I could devise a system that would virtually ensure we don't maximise the ability of the likes of Gardner, Bannan, Albrighton and co it wouldn't be a million miles the current hit and not much hope  scuffling murderball.

re the bolded bit, I wrote a piece in the first fanzine of the season about precisely that - to precis, we're a fair minded lot, but the worst thing to do would be to revert to playing the sort of football he played there, as that would lose him the support he did have, really quickly.

I like the bloke, he seems dignified and highly likeable, but he makes it so hard. It's really hard to respect a manager who sends an Aston Villa side out to play like we did at Spurs on Monday. And that's not misguidedly thinking we're Barcelona, it is about thinking we should show a bit of pride.

if there is a reason McLeish is the man for the job, it is entirely about him bringing down expectations. Unfortunately, it'll be done in a way which makes him look like the fall guy.

If I'd set out as a malignant, omnipotent force in the summer, with the ability to control Randy's mind, and wanted to do the most damage to the club I could, then I genuinely struggle to think of a more damaging path than the flogging off and non-replacement of two of our best players and the appointment of McLeish. I can't think of anything that would be more divisive and damaging.

Like your last paragraph, I find the whole thing mind boggling. Talking about the youth in one breath then playing the kind of predictable, unadventurous guff we play. It makes zero sense. Talking about taking the Ajax route with youth (although there are some serious issues with that idea to start with) then failing to do anything to indicate you mean it is pointless.

The whole thing is going to end in tears, and the thought of the inevitable panning out while we sit back and watch is just too depressing for words.

There are limits to how much money Randy can spend, we all understand that, but this state of affairs right now is not primarily about money. It is about incompetence.

I can't decide if it is also about pig headedness or lack of interest, but it is without a doubt insane, and I can not believe anyone, deep down, thinks this is going to end up in a good place.

[pauliewalnuts]

Incidentally, for a good example of the total lack of continuity in managerial appointments, witness club record signing Darren Bent forlornly chasing after hopeless 60 yard balls pumped up field by the centre halves on Sunday.

I wouldn't blame him for a second if he demanded to leave in January.

A record signing reduced to that.

[Somniloquism]

Incidentally, for a good example of the total lack of continuity in managerial appointments, witness club record signing Darren Bent forlornly chasing after hopeless 60 yard balls pumped up field by the centre halves on Sunday.

I wouldn't blame him for a second if he demanded to leave in January.

A record signing reduced to that.

I remember posting that he had reverted to his English record on attacking. I pointed out that in the seasons in the top flight they barely made a goal a game and even when they finished second in the Championship, a division where the top teams usually get 70-80 goals, they got 52. The response was he had Jerome then but has Bent now so we will be better. To me he has successfully turned a 20 goal a season striker into Cameron Jerome with his current tactics.

[pauliewalnuts]

Incidentally, for a good example of the total lack of continuity in managerial appointments, witness club record signing Darren Bent forlornly chasing after hopeless 60 yard balls pumped up field by the centre halves on Sunday.

I wouldn't blame him for a second if he demanded to leave in January.

A record signing reduced to that.

I remember posting that he had reverted to his English record on attacking. I pointed out that in the seasons in the top flight they barely made a goal a game and even when they finished second in the Championship, a division where the top teams usually get 70-80 goals, they got 52. The response was he had Jerome then but has Bent now so we will be better. To me he has successfully turned a 20 goal a season striker into Cameron Jerome with his current tactics.

That's the thing.

It might as well be Cameron Jerome lumbering about there in a different post code to the rest of the team.

It is just miserable to watch.

[KevinGage]

There are limits to how much money Randy can spend, we all understand that, but this state of affairs right now is not primarily about money. It is about incompetence.

It increasingly feels that way, doesn't it?

I'm reluctant to kick a man when he's down-  particularly a man who for four years delivered way more than most of us could realistically expect.

But it his success ratio (or lack of) at the Browns was always in the back of my mind. More like a nagging whisper, rather than a booming Brian Blessed shouting that it was all doomed, doomed!

I reasoned that the Browns was an obligation whereas the Villa was a choice and what constitutes success here  (CL qualification/ trophies) might be somewhat easier to attain than a Superbowl win against sides with infinitely more resources.

But no getting away from it, the 'big' decisions affecting the club recently have been about  as convincing as Terry Wigon's hair-don't.

[Risso]

I think it was the signing of Harewood that first put the doubts in my mind that Lerner and O'Neill were going to be the dream ticket we thought they'd be.  The signing of Heskey was the final nail in the coffin for any hope I had that we could join the elite.  Now we're just biding time until Lerner can find a buyer.