Objectives and objectivity

[KevinGage]

I thought we were lining Bent up in the summer before the January we bought him?
In which case how could it have been anything to do with relegation fears?

My understanding, which is limited to the press and what I read on here, so not claiming any sort of ITK, was that Houllier started speaking about getting Bent when he arrived.  So while it was probably not a panic buy as such, when you look at our dealings immediately before and since I find it hard to see how Randy would have rubber stamped it had we not been where we were in the league.

That's my understanding too.

In fact, I'm sure GH himself said something very similar soon after the signing was completed, that he'd admired him since his time at Liverpool and had specifically mentioned his name soon after taking over.

But maybe the deal only became reality when it was clear Ash was off and that money could effectively by used in advance.  That bit I'm not so sure about.

[frank black]

Monty, you will have to explain the difference between "having a go" and "competing" to me as I'm not getting it.

We played crap and we lost the game, everyone says it so I accept it. Similarly I think most would agree with me that, at present, Spurs are a richer club than us with better playing resources at their disposal. So from that point of view choosing that game as particularly significant makes little logical sense.

We're a side and club in transition. McLeish has had half a transfer window and 12 games. In some of them we've played well, some poorly and some averagely. From any sensible standpoint that's entirely to be expected but as ever these days it's only the most recent game that matters.

I've been to most home games this season plus the odd away and have yet to witness us 'play well' Chris.

There's every chance this is all going to end in misery for us and Mcleish. It's a shame because he seems like a nice guy. He doesn't appear up to the job.

It's ok to give him some time, but lets hope it's not too late if we need to get rid.

I'm not looking forward to taking some Man U clients to the next home game, that's for sure.

[Risso]

Do you think we tried to get anything out of the match, Chris?

And, if so, what?

As I've said I didn't see the game but it sounds like we tried to do what many teams did to us when MON was manager and stifle the opposition who, let's be honest, are currently much better than we are and the same as England did against Spain the other week. Great when it comes off but you look crap when it doesn't.

As somebody said after the match on here, if he's going to play boring, dull football, at least be good at it.  Monday night was an abolsute shambles.

[midnite]

Chris, monday night was appalling. Not because we lost but in the manner we lost. QPR went there, gave it their all but still came away with nothing. And there is a gulf between them and spurs. We on the other hand rolled over before we even kicked te ball. That's whats getting most people's backs up. And when it went tits up and we were 2-0 down. He did nothing.
If capello had gone 2-0 down to Spain within 30 mins and did nothing we'd all be saying the same thing.
I saw half time as an opportunity to rethink and go for broke. Containing and frustrating spurs didn't work. We find ourselves two down so we have nothing to lose by just going for it. Instead it was a substitution of cellar for bannan with 30 mins to go (IIRC) then Delph on with less than 10 mins to go.
Spurs are a better side than us now, but that doesn't mean we should not have a go at them. Same as I don't expect us to surrender when we come to playing Man u and Liverpool in the next few weeks. Otherwise what's the point in turning up.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Going back to Steve's original post, the point for me that remains undefined was this:

3) Give the much vaunted emerging ex-youth teamers opprtunity to state their case

With the exception of Herd who looks like he has what it takes to be a solid defensive midfielder (despite a few of you looking to shift him to right back on Sunday), I feel the younger players have been played out of position.

Delph started 8 games but he's never a defensive midfielder, so why play him there?

Bannan would be far more suited in a Lee Hendrie type role, further up the pitch, linking the play, finding that through ball that Bent thrives on, so why play him so deep?

Clark has only started one game and that was the 4-1 defeat to Man City. Will he ever get another game?

Albrighton admittedly hasn't looked like the player he was early last season but he's hardly been given a chance, yet we've persisted with N'Zogbia who has been just as bad, ranging from crap to not so crap. I can only assume his price tag gets him on the team sheet so often.

Sadly young Eric Lichaj got injured when really looking the part, certainly a million times better than Hutton. Hopefully he'll soon be back.

Not much to say regarding the Fonz or Weimann, their opportunities will be few with Gabby and Bent up front.

If this season was to be anything, it was an opportunity to give these lads a chance but there comes a point when the team are struggling and it may be cruel to throw them in. That time is fast approaching but I'd certainly like to see them given their chance. The sooner the better.

[old man villa fan]

What I am struggling to see is a plan for the season and it has been like this since the first few games.

People say that we are steadying the ship financially and therefore the performances are symptomatic of this.  Football of today dictates that if you try and stand still you go backwards and this is what I see as happening to us now.

We have sold some players that have brought a considerable amount of money in and reduced the wage bill but core expenditure that we are not getting value for money from is still here.  In fact, you could say that the players we sold were the performing assets.

It was clear to McLeish when he came in that Ashley Young had gone and Downing was on his way.  He was also very quickly aware that Reo Coker would be on his way and that Luke Young wanted to go back to London.  Also, Friedel was looking for security of an extended contract.  He had two and a half months of the transfer window to replace these players if he wanted to.  Some have said he has only had half a transfer window but very few dealings were done early in the window so this loss of time should not have hindered him.

Randy Lerner was willing to back him with a certain amount of money but, other than Given, I think he has wasted what little money he had.  It was as clear as day that he could not afford to replace Young and Downing with equivalent players so he should have been looking to strengthen other parts of the team.  Our forwards and wide players have for a number of seasons compensated for a non performing central midfield.  It should have been this area that AM should have spent the bulk of his money on.  Something to build a new era around, something that would help the defence and the attack.  But no, he went out and bought another wide player and overpaid for an average fullback.

Although new managers do not know the exact personalities of players they inherit, they do have more than a passing knowledge of their capabilities.  Football is a very technical game now, with every manager have a dossier on opposition players strengths and weaknesses.  AM must have known what our weaknesses were but did not address them.  He replaced like for like with inferior players (with the exception of Given).  It is no wonder we are going backwards.  He has not tried to improve us as a 'footballing' side, in fact I think we have take a huge step backwards from where GH had taken us in this respect.  He seemed to have decided that he could take us back to the MON way but does not seem to appreciate that the 'bells and whistles' of that team have moved on.

i have said it before (and some have argued against it) but I think there is a core of players in the squad that lack motivation to react when things go against us.  I am not saying conceding a goal against the run of play but like the other night against Spurs when we did not start well and then conceded.  Could anybody honestly say that they thought we could have got back into the game after we went a goal behind.  We have too many players in the team whose careers are on the down slope, too many players in the team that cannot pass the ball accurately, let alone intelligently.  The defending is shocking and that is not just down to the central defence.  How any times are we going to concede goals with players being given oceans of space in the middle of the penalty area.  The manager is an ex international centre half, with a lot of his appearances being when Scotland were not a bad side.  What is he doing about it, either he cannot work out what to do or the players are not playing to instructions, in which case they should be dropped.  The number of times this season I have thought why is so and so picking up him, it is a total miss match.

You can play effective football with average players if you play the right way.  There are quite a few teams with players of less quality than we have that play far better than we do.  It is down to the quality of the manager to play the right players, in the right positions and with a playing strategy.  Some will say "but we are above these teams in the table".  In my opinion that is because the fixtures have been kind to us but I will reserve final judgement until we reach half way and we have played all of the teams.

I appreciate that we cannot compete with the top 6 or 7 teams at the present time due to financial reasons but we should have a plan of closing the gap.  Without money this can only be done by developing and playing our young players or buying bargains.  We will inevitably have to sell some good players along the way but that should be in our future strategy.  As I said earlier, we have too many fading players in the team and we need to shake the team up.  I'm afraid evolution is looking out of the question and it needs to be more revolution.

All in all, I do not think AM has the ability to manage a team that will be consistently above 9th or 10th in the league, or can play a style of football that fans will pay to watch.