Objectives and objectivity

[Steve R]

The objectives listed above are all short term measures designed to control cash flow and reduce outgoings, these  are the kind of short term objective that companies set [often under instruction from a bank] to regain an apparent control of a financial situation [often on paper]

....

That's putting things far better than I did. And I would certainly hope they are short term.

Yes, there is not point in doing what we are currently doing without the expectation of achieving stability and having a plan in place for what you do once you get there.

We are not headed toward stability though.

The need to cut back is a given, whether we like it or not. How that came about doesn't really matter that much.
 
I just cannot accept that it necessarily entails crap football, waving the white flag at WHL, or permanent abandonment of the aim of competing for a CL place in the reasonably near future.

Yet that is what we seem to be getting.

[jonzy85]

Up until Monday night, I would have considered myself fairly neutral on McLeish.

When he was appointed, I didnt want him (due to his track record, not Blues connection) but thought he should be given a chance. Since then, he had done nothing significantly positive or negative for me to reconsider my views either way.

But the team selection, tactics and rabbit-in-the-headlights reaction to Spurs controlling the game has me looking at him in a much more negative light. Not so much that I want him gone, but more of the same and I certainly would.

A few decent results and performances in December might bring him back to neutral territory, however, a bad month (particularly in terms of performance against the big teams - not expecting many points) and I think there will have to be serious questions asked.

[pauliewalnuts]

AMcL must be given a chance, at least, but unfortunately some will not look beyond the end of their anti blue noses.

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to moan that people are too closed minded to give him a chance, then to suggest that it's largely because they don't like Blues? Isn't that just as narrow minded?

I can think of, at most, a handful of people on here that wanted him gone as soon as he got here because of his provenance, and none of those are even regular posters.

How much do you think Monday night was about him having been the Blues manager? It wasn't. What it was was (another) 90 minutes demonstrating that those who are concerned about his brand of football - and who would be so, wherever he'd come from - are right to be worried.

The "you're only moaning because he's a former Blues manager" is the season's new cop-out non-argument.

[pauliewalnuts]

Despite working with certain limitations - transfer budget, in the main - though, McLeish has had the benefit of a full squad to work with (injuries few and far between) and I think he's made/making some poor choices. Seeing a bench full of good 'footballers' against Spurs really worried me. I'm more than happy to give him a chance - God knows I want him to succeed - but he hasn't impressed me much so far.

Not having the biggest of squads is something that he is going to find difficult to work with, and something we will need to cut him some slack on at some point, but the fact is, as you said, this hasn't been a factor thus far, so it's really not a viable excuse.

We've also had the advantage of a really pretty easy opening section to the season, too.

[Greg N'Ash]

Houllier got till this time last year so why anyone would think AM would get longer given the circumstances is beyond me. He was always going to have to do much better than expected and frankly he hasn't. A lot of us saw the fixture list at the start of the season and knew we had to get off to a flier to cover us for the coming fixtures or pull off a surprises in the next month. Like most people i've added up the points i'm expecting before January and he's gonna be in a lot trouble if the total is anywhere near my guesstimate.

[pauliewalnuts]

Houllier got till this time last year so why anyone would think AM would get longer given the circumstances is beyond me.

Because Lerner has bet the house (in terms of his credibility) on this appointment.

You can forget any notion that AM is going to get sacked any time soon.

[barrysleftfoot]

  I think Randys recent interview, along with his appointment of McLeish , confirms his medium to long term strategy.

 No longer will we pay £5-10m pounds for over 28s on high wages.In fact i don't expect many signings until all of the big earners have gone.

 I think by next summer Dunne, Warnock, Petrov, Beye, Heskey will no longer be at the club, and we will be buying 22/23 year olds, probably from abroad.

 Slowly but surely, Bannan, Gardener, Clark, Johnson et al will be worked into the team, and the better ones sold off, probably once a year with the idea that we have others coming through.

 Wages will be kept down apart from player like Gabby and Bent and Given.And as and when the youngsters develop, they will be well rewarded.

 We will probably have a net spend of about £10m for each of the next 2 seasons.

 TBF to Randy , we can't complain.We had a go under MON, and we failed to break into the top 4.Randy is reluctant to throw any more money at a lost cause, and who can blame him.We have some good youngsters coming through, and it would'nt be a bad idea to have a good look at them before signing journeymen like Collins, Beye, Warnock, LYoung etc.We have the basis of a very good team down there, even now, in my eyes a top 8 team, possibly higher, but the manager certainly needs to show a bit more belief in his better footballers, otherwise Randy needs to bite the bullet, get rid of McL, and give Brendan Rogers 5 years.

[Greg N'Ash]

Houllier got till this time last year so why anyone would think AM would get longer given the circumstances is beyond me.

Because Lerner has bet the house (in terms of his credibility) on this appointment.

You can forget any notion that AM is going to get sacked any time soon.

Depends on how bad we're doing and if he values his credibility over hard cash. He panicked quick enough and bought Bent when things looked iffy. Impending relegation and more million pound losses may focus his mind somewhat

[Phil from the upper holte]

He may be doing the job he's been asked to do but I doubt randy's ever told him to play 6 defenders. maybe he wants the wage bill brought down further as Mcleish's anti brand of football will drive the crowds down even further

[N'ZMAV]

Do we have a problem with some of our fans not accepting that we're no longer challenging for honours and competing at the top with the like of now, Spurs etc.

It's obviously hard to swallow, especially for the older fans that have witnessed European Glory Days. however, things probably aren't going to be much better than this going forward, or are they?

[andyh]

he may have only had 12 games, but in those 12 games there has been little or nothing to show we are moving in a more positve direction.
Infact, we appear to be worse now, than when he took over. They may have been one off, somehat flukey results, but I honestly cannot see see us pulling off wins against Arse and Liverpool like we did at the backend of last season.
 
This malaise around the club that people mention, I think, is correct.
We have not have the new manager 'bounce', it just seems to be a case of 'as you were', but a little bit shitter.

I have yet to see any game this season where we have looked postive, bright, enthusiastic and capable.
I don't mean world beaters, I just mean up for the game and looking like we think we can win.
 
The closest was Norwich, but lets face it, that was against a very naive (sp ?) team, who actually were the better team for a large part of the game, and could have snatched a draw at the death.

Other than that game, we have looked at best, functional.

I did not want McLeish, nothing to do with the Rags, just because I think he is a poor manager.
Ater the Monday night debacle, I feel evrn more so that we are now going backwards.

I hope Lerner wakes up and smells the coffee, before its too late.     

[N'ZMAV]

obviously we don't have to accept where we are, and should strive for more from oru club, but it's probably not going to happen. Slightly heartbroken.

[Risso]

Do we have a problem with some of our fans not accepting that we're no longer challenging for honours and competing at the top with the like of now, Spurs etc.

It's obviously hard to swallow, especially for the older fans that have witnessed European Glory Days. however, things probably aren't going to be much better than this going forward, or are they?

We just need Lerner to sell.   We haven't got a cat in hell's chance of paying him back the loans he's made to us, so as it's clear that he isn't willing to finance us any more after he wasted so much, he's going to have to find a buyer.  And no, it doesn't have to be an oil rich arab nation, just as it didn't when Ellis was looking to sell.

[Chris Smith]

AMcL must be given a chance, at least, but unfortunately some will not look beyond the end of their anti blue noses.

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to moan that people are too closed minded to give him a chance, then to suggest that it's largely because they don't like Blues? Isn't that just as narrow minded?

I can think of, at most, a handful of people on here that wanted him gone as soon as he got here because of his provenance, and none of those are even regular posters.

How much do you think Monday night was about him having been the Blues manager? It wasn't. What it was was (another) 90 minutes demonstrating that those who are concerned about his brand of football - and who would be so, wherever he'd come from - are right to be worried.

The "you're only moaning because he's a former Blues manager" is the season's new cop-out non-argument.

With respect that's bollocks, Paulie. No other appointment would have served up the embarrassing scenes outside Villa Park when it was first rumoured.

That attitude just hasn't shifted despite a reasonably good start to the season.

I said then and I'll say it again, he wasn't the man I wanted but I'm prepared to have an open mind. To at least see what he can over the course of a season.

[N'ZMAV]

Do we have a problem with some of our fans not accepting that we're no longer challenging for honours and competing at the top with the like of now, Spurs etc.

It's obviously hard to swallow, especially for the older fans that have witnessed European Glory Days. however, things probably aren't going to be much better than this going forward, or are they?

We just need Lerner to sell.   We haven't got a cat in hell's chance of paying him back the loans he's made to us, so as it's clear that he isn't willing to finance us any more after he wasted so much, he's going to have to find a buyer.  And no, it doesn't have to be an oil rich arab nation, just as it didn't when Ellis was looking to sell.

There's 2 ways out of this current stagnation in my opinion, and both decisions lie with Mr Lerner, either, he sells up, to someone, as you say, who hasn't got to be some oil rich squillionaire. Or he pumps in another load of cash to chase the dream that he outlined when he bought the club, 5-year plan and all that... Personally, I think the first option is the only one. I can't see Mr Lerner putting in more cash, especially as we've seen enough of his original investment wasted in poor signings by a previous manager. Looking from outside in, it would be a fantastic investment for some rich, and just as importantly, enthusiastic business man (or woman) to have a part-time hobby. But, it's going to take a hell of a few million quid to push us up to the promise land, and let's face it, there's only 4 spots to get into the Champions League, which, are pretty much decided out of 5 maybe now 6 clubs. And whatever happens, it's not going to happen over night. Can't see Villa Park being a happy place for a few years yet....