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Author Topic: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made  (Read 53881 times)

Offline cdbearsfan

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Villa
« Reply #165 on: November 21, 2011, 01:14:36 AM »
Risso, many of your posts seem to be based on hindsight. Can you point me in the direction of all the posts you made saying we spent too much money and gave O'Neill too much control dating back to before the big girl walked out? Not having a go just interested to know if you predicted our demise as I seem to remember most Villa fans saying No Deal should have complete control like Saunders used to at the time.

Offline Concrete John

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #166 on: November 21, 2011, 11:28:59 AM »
We can debate the pros and cons of MONs transfer dealings until the end of time, and knowing H&V we probably will, but ultimately as a manager he'll point to the results on the pitch as justification. 

Where it started to go wrong was that we needed a step up in class to make that final jump to being a CL side, but he was either unwilling or unable to do that.  Money wise there was enough there to do it, if we had used the kids to flesh out other areas of the squad.  Was Sidwell any better than Gardner the Elder?  Beye better than Lichaj? 

So may the time was right, if not the actual timing, for him to move on and someone else to put the icing on the cake he made.  And there the board starts to come in for some justified criticism and Houller was never going to be that man.  AM seems to me a 'back to basics' answer to keep us solid and out of danger, but if/when the present financial situation turns in our favour, as in the high earnering poor performers have gone,  then we either get back to Randy's early days of player investment, only this time with a bit of a better idea of things, or continue to tread water as the money needed to compete is outside or menas, so why bother trying?       

Offline Ryu

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #167 on: November 21, 2011, 11:31:11 AM »
"Liverpool had the likes of Jovanovic, Kochensky and Poulson on big wages for very little return.  They didn't use being stung on those deals as a reason not to compete anymore."

No they go bought by new owners who then spent even more money.

Offline Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #168 on: November 21, 2011, 11:44:32 AM »
"Liverpool had the likes of Jovanovic, Kochensky and Poulson on big wages for very little return.  They didn't use being stung on those deals as a reason not to compete anymore."

No they go bought by new owners who then spent even more money.

Sorry to strike a note of business reality here. I have never considered Liverpool to be that much bigger than us in England, and at various times over the last 30 or so years we have given them a run for their money to try and overtake them.
However, in global terms Liverpool do have a bigger following than us. Unfortunately,  big clubs revenue streams now are probably more influenced by global brand awareness and TV coverage abroad rather than how many you get through the turnstile. Horrible business speak language I know but thats what decides who you can buy and what wages you can afford.   

Offline Risso

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #169 on: November 21, 2011, 11:45:01 AM »
"Liverpool had the likes of Jovanovic, Kochensky and Poulson on big wages for very little return.  They didn't use being stung on those deals as a reason not to compete anymore."

No they go bought by new owners who then spent even more money.

who also proved that they didn't need to be oil rich Arabs to be able to compete.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #170 on: November 21, 2011, 11:53:05 AM »
True.

But those players were still on the books.

The wage bill- including also the likes of Joe Cole who barely turned up last year must have been in a right state.  And  no CL football to offset it either.  Their income would still be higher, granted.   But the conditions were there -if the new owners were so inclined- to say players out before players in.

If RL no longer has the funds required to compete at the top end that's one thing. I can't really slate a man who has put in a large chunk of his families inheritance over that initial four year period.  And maybe some organic approach -with the emphasis of getting good young players on the up and either moving them on for bigger fees or hoping it all clicks in one magical season before the sharks start circulating, is as much as we can realistically hope for under the circumstances.

But If the money is available and we are really just waiting for the likes of Heskey and Beye to move on before we think about competing again, that's a mistake in my book.  All the sides who were above us 18 months ago have pushed on that bit more and others have closed the gap. Effectively we'd be purposely sabotaging any advantage we had built up between 2006-10.

Offline Concrete John

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #171 on: November 21, 2011, 11:53:32 AM »
"Liverpool had the likes of Jovanovic, Kochensky and Poulson on big wages for very little return.  They didn't use being stung on those deals as a reason not to compete anymore."

No they go bought by new owners who then spent even more money.

who also proved that they didn't need to be oil rich Arabs to be able to compete.

To me they're just doing what Randy did when he took over, especially when you factor in the incoming fees for players like Torres and Morales.  Time will tell what their longterm capabilities are.
 

Offline Small Rodent

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #172 on: November 21, 2011, 12:27:58 PM »
A warning about oil-rich billionaires and their business dealings. My Dad was at the Dubai airshow last week, and the immensely rich owner of Qatar Airways turned round and said he was cancelling his order for 44 Airbus aircraft because they are "rubbish" and changed his order to Boeing 777s. By the end of the day he told Boeing to stuff it and chose the "rubbish" Airbus again. My Dad has worked with the lot - Qatar, Emirates etc. and they really are so rich they are a law unto themselves. They would have no problem dumping Man City, for example, on a whim. I suppose when you are so rich nothing matters at all.


Offline Ryu

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #173 on: November 21, 2011, 02:04:42 PM »
I agree with John M that what the Fenway group are doing at Liverpool is similar to what Randy did in his first couple of seasons, which is to spend big money in an attempt to get into the CL. Randy has had to reign it in now so it will be interesting to see what the liverpool board do if they haven't got CL football in a couple of years.

But anyway, we are nowhere near Liverpool in terms of global or domestic following and therefore potential revenue and turnover so comparing the two clubs abilities to absorb the cost of transfer flops is pretty pointless.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #174 on: November 21, 2011, 02:24:08 PM »
Don't think for a second that John Henry isn't going to want to see the same return Randy had hoped for based on his investment. The enormous amounts of money spent on mainly British players is very MONesque even if you argue the quality of the acquistions if at least on paper look better quality. The Fenway Group aren't going to keep ploughing cash into the club without seeing them meet their CL goals. Randy did it for the best part of 3 years to achieve that goal albeit from a less advantageous position, and then realised it had to be managed better because it was spiralling out of control. Liverpool won't be able to to keep spending at this rate and either Dalglish will get the boot, or they'll simply tell him to make use with what he has. Whether that prompts Dalglish to do a MON remains to be seen. It's not like he doesn't have an MO for walking out on clubs.

Offline MoetVillan

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #175 on: November 21, 2011, 04:45:46 PM »
I dont know if their UK acquisitions do look better on paper. take their top three buys  Henderson Carroll Adam.  And for us Young Milner Downing.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #176 on: November 21, 2011, 07:50:42 PM »
I dont know if their UK acquisitions do look better on paper. take their top three buys  Henderson Carroll Adam.  And for us Young Milner Downing.

Wouldn't one of their top acquisitions also be downing but just at a mind boggling 20m?
I have no problem with Villa selling players in that fashion I just wish the profits would be reinvested.

Offline Mazrim

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Re: No smoke without fire: Lerner will sell, if the right offer is made
« Reply #177 on: November 21, 2011, 10:42:14 PM »
And Suarez.

 


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