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Author Topic: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article  (Read 36168 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #150 on: October 10, 2011, 04:15:48 PM »
Quote
As usual, that's complete bollocks from you.    I said that we've wasted a large amount of money, and whether you agree or not, to try and paint as that as some somment about Habib Beye is utterly childish, stupid and downright ridiculous, which is par for the course for you these days.  If we havaen't wasted such mo much money, particularly on high wages for underperforming and rubbish players, why is that we're now undergoing a period of austerity that makes George Osborne look like Father Christmas?

You just can't help yourself, can you? I make that a "complete", an "utterly" and a "downright" topped off by your usual hyperbole in the final line.

I used Beye merely as an example but we'd have had to spend all of the money on Anne Widdecombe to justify the kind of language you used.

That's my stance; you lessen your argument and polarise the debate by over egging a point. Few things are "totally", "absolutely" or "completely". You're not the only one and I know I've done similar myself in the past but it seems to be more and more common on the site these days and I think it makes it harder to discuss things sensibly.

When it comes to discussing your posts, "complete" followed by "bollocks" isn't over egging the point at all.

Offline Mazrim

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #151 on: October 10, 2011, 04:16:30 PM »
Are you playing RissoBingo Chris? :)

Online Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #152 on: October 10, 2011, 04:16:38 PM »
Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings.  I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive.  When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.

To Villa, marketing is the signs around the ground, the emails, the ST packs, the shirt prices etc, it's not about the football side of things I don't think, and yes, we do need that.
 

I hate my profession being brought down to some nice signs, a few e-mails and season ticket packs!

As the product that the Villa sells is football, the marketing IS about the football side of things, its about the strategic marketing of a football club, which covers the finances, players and pretty much everything about the club.

[Which it appears has not been good]

Let's be completely honest, the 'product' has been shit for years despite the large amounts of money spent. Until we get lucky with a decent manager, further investment is just a continuation of the 'pearls to pigs' strategy. There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 04:18:40 PM by The Sound of Villadelphia »

Offline Risso

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #153 on: October 10, 2011, 04:29:55 PM »

I used Beye merely as an example but we'd have had to spend all of the money on Anne Widdecombe to justify the kind of language you used.


You didn't use Beye as an "example" at all, this what you actually said:

"Blimey, now buying "Beye" is money wasted in the most "hideous and wanton manner imaginable".

I agree it was a poor signing but some perspective please. There's an increasing tendency to overstate arguments with hyperbolic language and the result is polarised and unproductive discussions."

You phrased your post as if it was Beye I had specifically mentioned. If I had, yes then it would have been over the top, but as we were talking about Lerner's total spend since taking over, then it is clear that we have wasted absolute fortunes, as even the General and the General's son have stated publicly.  Beye is but one example of the overall poor use of funds by O'Neill, such as buying the likes of Cuellar and Davies, then replacing them shortly after, buying Sidwell, buying Harewood, buying Shorey, paying Heskey £65K a week and so on.

In wages and signing on fees, Harewood by himself cost us £10m, and if that isn't a hideous waste of money in anybody's language, then you moust eat swan liver paté with pickled larks' tongues for lunch.

Offline Concrete John

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #154 on: October 10, 2011, 04:38:26 PM »
There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.

That depends of whether you class the 'product' as the results or the style of play.

Offline kippaxvilla2

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #155 on: October 10, 2011, 04:42:33 PM »
There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.

That depends of whether you class the 'product' as the results or the style of play.

Brighton is a good example.

Online London Villan

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #156 on: October 10, 2011, 04:56:07 PM »
Faulkner was Randy's assistant basically, as opposed to upcoming CEO of a middle size sports business. I don't see anything on his CV that makes him qualified to manage a business of Villa's size. I may be wrong but I guess it's more likely Randy trusts him to carry out his orders when he isn't around.

Online Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #157 on: October 10, 2011, 04:58:23 PM »
There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.

That depends of whether you class the 'product' as the results or the style of play.

Both are important but most important is what happens at Villa Park. A wonderful away record does little for the coffers if we're crap at Villa Park.

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #158 on: October 10, 2011, 05:33:16 PM »

I used Beye merely as an example but we'd have had to spend all of the money on Anne Widdecombe to justify the kind of language you used.


You didn't use Beye as an "example" at all, this what you actually said:

"Blimey, now buying "Beye" is money wasted in the most "hideous and wanton manner imaginable".

I agree it was a poor signing but some perspective please. There's an increasing tendency to overstate arguments with hyperbolic language and the result is polarised and unproductive discussions."

You phrased your post as if it was Beye I had specifically mentioned. If I had, yes then it would have been over the top, but as we were talking about Lerner's total spend since taking over, then it is clear that we have wasted absolute fortunes, as even the General and the General's son have stated publicly.  Beye is but one example of the overall poor use of funds by O'Neill, such as buying the likes of Cuellar and Davies, then replacing them shortly after, buying Sidwell, buying Harewood, buying Shorey, paying Heskey £65K a week and so on.

In wages and signing on fees, Harewood by himself cost us £10m, and if that isn't a hideous waste of money in anybody's language, then you moust eat swan liver paté with pickled larks' tongues for lunch.

You're nit picking to evade the point.

All I am saying is for the sake of grown up debate that I think you should consider moderating (geddit) your choice of words a little. I'm not arguing that some money was spent unwisely (not that we're unique in that) just that over the top language turns a straightforward discussion into something more emotive.

Offline Shrek

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #159 on: October 10, 2011, 06:02:21 PM »
Just a point on the Browns.

From what I understand, owning an NFL team is a pure money making thing, you could lose every game an still make a profit each year.

So that's abit different to owning a football team where they lose money every year. So he'd sell Us before them surely. (correct me if I'm wrong guys)

Offline TimTheVillain

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #160 on: October 10, 2011, 06:20:20 PM »
Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings.  I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive.  When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.

To Villa, marketing is the signs around the ground, the emails, the ST packs, the shirt prices etc, it's not about the football side of things I don't think, and yes, we do need that.
 

I hate my profession being brought down to some nice signs, a few e-mails and season ticket packs!

As the product that the Villa sells is football, the marketing IS about the football side of things, its about the strategic marketing of a football club, which covers the finances, players and pretty much everything about the club.

[Which it appears has not been good]

Let's be completely honest, the 'product' has been shit for years despite the large amounts of money spent. Until we get lucky with a decent manager, further investment is just a continuation of the 'pearls to pigs' strategy. There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.

And as an aside, the ST packs were a waste of money.Nice as there were, all fans really want is their ST delivered on time in an envelope !





Offline cheltenhamlion

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #161 on: October 10, 2011, 06:28:10 PM »
I certainly don't want a sticker for my seat and a buy 12 get one free voucher for teas.

Online taylorsworkrate

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #162 on: October 10, 2011, 07:49:51 PM »
Just a point on the Browns.

From what I understand, owning an NFL team is a pure money making thing, you could lose every game an still make a profit each year.

So that's abit different to owning a football team where they lose money every year. So he'd sell Us before them surely. (correct me if I'm wrong guys)

The NFL is regulated and run a lot better than the premier league, resulting in a more exciting product for fans, a much more competitive league and good investments for owners.

I'd love to see a salary cap introduced into football, it would really benefit the game.  Its never going to happen though.  Clubs like Man United and Citeh have FAR too much influence and power for that to come to fruition.

Offline Vanilla

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Re: Randy wants to cut wages further - Mirror article
« Reply #163 on: October 10, 2011, 07:52:55 PM »
Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings.  I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive.  When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.

Darren Bent springs to mind.  Both the signing and how we went about it.

His biggest failiure, IMO, was the MON thing and not seeing the issues during summer 2010 and acting on them.

That should have seen the writing on the wall and made contingency plans in May 2010 when MON started making negative noises. Instead they buried their collective heads in the sand and hoped for the best.


 


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