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Author Topic: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday  (Read 17201 times)

Offline teamvillage

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2011, 01:23:53 PM »
My understanding is it's now fine for 'individuals' to buy cards from foreign TV stations but not pubs. The landlady effectively lost her right to broadcast in her pub using the Greek card.




She can reinstate her Greek decoder but not broadcast as she'd be breaching the PL copyright.

Quote
There was one other loser on Tuesday: Karen Murphy, the Portsmouth publican who started the case. Tired of the high prices Sky charges pubs and clubs, she went off and bought the original Greek satellite decoder card that caused all the trouble in the first place.

Unfortunately, the court held that pubs – who are in effect trying to profit from getting cheaper foreign decoder cards – can't benefit. That's because she was breaching the copyright of the Premier League, not by showing live coverage of the football match itself, but by broadcasting the Premier League's logo or anthem without permission.

The sanguine Premier League is already noting that it will be easy to stop publicans using its footage without permission by ensuring that its logo is on screen all the time, or its theme music played every time a replay is aired.


That's not quite how I read it (though admittedly I've only skimmed the full judgment) - what I think it is saying is that if you buy an individual subscription you are not breaching copyright by then "broadcasting" (showing in a pub) the match itself, but you are violating copyright law if you broadcast the FAPL's intellectual property (anthem, logo etc).

The issue is therefore not that it's a foreign subscription, but that it's a domestic, not a commercial subscription. Presumably the broadcaster in Greece (or insert EU country here) also offers commercial subscriptions, that a UK pub could take up.

Interesting aside - can Sky (unlikely to want to) or ESPN (perhaps more likely) now sue the FAPL, as it turns out the FAPL cannot guarantee exclusivity? That presumably makes the current contracts less valuable than previously thought.
She is waiting for the High Court to endorse the ruling before reinstating her decoder.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2011, 01:33:50 PM »
My understanding is it's now fine for 'individuals' to buy cards from foreign TV stations but not pubs. The landlady effectively lost her right to broadcast in her pub using the Greek card.




She can reinstate her Greek decoder but not broadcast as she'd be breaching the PL copyright.

Quote
There was one other loser on Tuesday: Karen Murphy, the Portsmouth publican who started the case. Tired of the high prices Sky charges pubs and clubs, she went off and bought the original Greek satellite decoder card that caused all the trouble in the first place.

Unfortunately, the court held that pubs – who are in effect trying to profit from getting cheaper foreign decoder cards – can't benefit. That's because she was breaching the copyright of the Premier League, not by showing live coverage of the football match itself, but by broadcasting the Premier League's logo or anthem without permission.

The sanguine Premier League is already noting that it will be easy to stop publicans using its footage without permission by ensuring that its logo is on screen all the time, or its theme music played every time a replay is aired.


That's not quite how I read it (though admittedly I've only skimmed the full judgment) - what I think it is saying is that if you buy an individual subscription you are not breaching copyright by then "broadcasting" (showing in a pub) the match itself, but you are violating copyright law if you broadcast the FAPL's intellectual property (anthem, logo etc).

The issue is therefore not that it's a foreign subscription, but that it's a domestic, not a commercial subscription. Presumably the broadcaster in Greece (or insert EU country here) also offers commercial subscriptions, that a UK pub could take up.

Interesting aside - can Sky (unlikely to want to) or ESPN (perhaps more likely) now sue the FAPL, as it turns out the FAPL cannot guarantee exclusivity? That presumably makes the current contracts less valuable than previously thought.
She is waiting for the High Court to endorse the ruling before reinstating her decoder.

She'd be sued for breach of copyright by the Premier League. Expect to see a constant PL logo on the screen in the coming weeks and the PL music when goals are replayed. They'll make it impossible for any pub to show games without breaching copyright.

Offline teamvillage

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2011, 01:39:03 PM »
That's my point - I don't see how that interpretation flies under EU Law.

It's a legitimate restriction on copyright material to say "you can use this for domestic use, but not for commercial use".

It's not legitimate to say "the Greeks can have it but not the English" - that's against EU Law.

That applies to the logos, anthems etc.

Offline Rudy Can't Fail

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2011, 02:12:17 PM »
It's near impossible to control 'domestic' breaches of copyright but very easy to control 'commercial' use. That's how Sky and the PL will make sure that pubs are kept in their pockets, plus I don't imagine there's a very long queue of UK individuals wanting to subscribe to Greek channels.

Offline Concrete John

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2011, 02:44:05 PM »
Interesting aside - can Sky (unlikely to want to) or ESPN (perhaps more likely) now sue the FAPL, as it turns out the FAPL cannot guarantee exclusivity? That presumably makes the current contracts less valuable than previously thought.

I don't believe so as the PL sells the rights to Sky and ESPN, who are then selling on the Greek rights to this Greek company.  If anything amybe the PL could sue Sky if there sub-selling overseas right without adequate protection results in diminished gates?

Offline avwebby

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2011, 03:37:11 PM »
Having spoken to the rep who did our German Sky I am now starting to understand. The landlady used the Decoder card and thats bad. We use sky German box with no card. The PL sell Foreign TV companies the right to show the games and they bid for the games they want to show at 3 o'clock. On the screen from the sky German box there is the PL logo and Football First Commentary which is sold overseas too (you can either have German or English commentary although when David Pleat is on Werner Schultz is more agreeable.)
The main thing is that Sky tried to fleece me for Bums on seats and said my pub can seat 350 people but I realised that this included benches outside. 950 Quid or 175 to me thats a lot of cash and a Manure Chelski game gives me the monthly revenue in an afternoon!!!!!

Offline Fuse

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2011, 03:39:59 PM »
Will this now drive clubs to sell their TV rights individually abroad? If so the n football will implode as the big clubs will command far higher fees than the likes of the Boltons of this world.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2011, 04:34:31 PM »
Is this not the reason why the media friendly clubs went down the road of club tv a while ago?

I might be wrong but i am sure i read in the 90's that Juventus being the Man U of Italy (i,e all the glory hunters followed them) sold a TV season ticket so the purchaser could watch every game via tv. The crowds then went from 50k per game to something like 20k per game and the atmosphere was dead

as i said i may be wrong but if it is the case then we are in for darker days of "fuck you we are alright" from the sky 4/5

Offline Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2011, 05:04:39 PM »
Will this now drive clubs to sell their TV rights individually abroad? If so the n football will implode as the big clubs will command far higher fees than the likes of the Boltons of this world.

Love the way you used Bolton as an example of a team nobody wants to watch...especially when there's a more obvious team...

Offline villa `cross the mersey

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2011, 05:33:11 PM »
Listening to Barry Hearne on Talkshite this afternoon - he was is raptures over the fact that Sky had exclusive rights and had paid handsomely for those rights. Basically little old landlord in Pompey would soon be put in her place by exclusive lawyers representing their exclusive clients. If she was allowed to "win" it would affect the "product" that is the Premier League etc etc. As ever its all about the money.
Football is due one hell of a reality check - however like society in general, the rich get richer and look after their own.
How long can clubs go on playing ridiculous fees and wages?
Perhaps Sky and the PL should consider backing grassroots rather than subsidising the mega rich clubs.
Not an effing chance.  :-\

Offline Percy McCarthy

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2011, 06:37:01 PM »
Will this now drive clubs to sell their TV rights individually abroad? If so the n football will implode as the big clubs will command far higher fees than the likes of the Boltons of this world.

Love the way you used Bolton as an example of a team nobody wants to watch...especially when there's a more obvious team...

Can't see the necessary 14 clubs out of the 20 voting for that.

Offline oldtimernow

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2011, 07:22:40 PM »
Is the revolution just about to dawn.....football gets its long overdue reality check..bring it on

Offline JUAN PABLO

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2011, 08:46:18 PM »
Listening to Barry Hearne on Talkshite this afternoon - he was is raptures over the fact that Sky had exclusive rights and had paid handsomely for those rights. Basically little old landlord in Pompey would soon be put in her place by exclusive lawyers representing their exclusive clients. If she was allowed to "win" it would affect the "product" that is the Premier League etc etc. As ever its all about the money.
Football is due one hell of a reality check - however like society in general, the rich get richer and look after their own.
How long can clubs go on playing ridiculous fees and wages?
Perhaps Sky and the PL should consider backing grassroots rather than subsidising the mega rich clubs.
Not an effing chance.  :-\

This

Offline Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2011, 08:28:45 AM »
It was the concept of open European free markets with the Bosman ruling that changed football forever and allowed those at the top end of the game to start making untold millions ultimately at the expense of ordinary fans. Not just the expense from our pockets but robbing us of the game we had grown up with and loved.

Perhaps in time it will be that same concept of an open European free market that will bite back at that group which has been riding the gravy train for so long. A gravy train occupied by mega rich agents, TV executives, club managers getting millions in "compensation", players on £100k+ per week, very ordinary players who hardly ever even play on £50k per week.   

Offline Blackcountry Villa

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Re: Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2011, 08:39:18 AM »
Well done the pubs. They'll have more fans in them than grounds soon. Just saw our ticket prices for the Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal games, the dearest tickets are £47! What a piss take. I remember when we used to moan about Chelsea being over £40 and i remember our dearest prices were about £35 not long ago. Thats a hell of an increase especially considering we've achieved feck all on the pitch. No wonder the ground is half empty and the atmosphere is crap.

 


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