Pubs v Premier League Ruling Tuesday

[German James]

What does this mean tv in general? BBC iPlayer doesn't allow me to watch certain programmes due to territorial rights, surely that means that I should be able to watch them now? Same goes for things like The Daily Show or Colbert Report.

I think that's an artistic rights issue. It's the same for me here (obviously!). The judge in this case said that a football match didn't count as intellectual property.

I'd love to see everything available worldwide (for a fee, of course). It's moving that way! Hooray!

[LionVilla]

This is something for Scudmissile and Sky to think about.

[NeilH]

Well it’s certainly a great victory for plastic Mancs across the land who can now watch the team they love from their local pub week on week without ever ever having to go to the trouble of actually visiting the stadium.
The topic of football cost has been frequently discussed on here and undoubtedly it is too high. A loss of a revenue stream for Sky may well lead to some redressing of the balance, but I do fear that for many ‘fans,’ watching football in the local pub will be the only way they will ever consume their football from now on.
Personally speaking, I’ve always hated watching Villa on the telly, be it in a pub or at home. Now of course I have no choice but to watch most of the games through the telly and I find it a very empty and unfulfilling experience. I will never be able to understand why a genuine fan would pay a Sky subscription and then watch another team play. Perhaps I’m in a minority in not giving a toss about any other team and certainly paying to see them on the telly.

[SteveD]

This has come about partly because Sky has been fleecing pubs, putting up fees hugely and pubs starting to feel the pinch generally. Sky only has itself to blame. I don't blame fans who can only afford to watch their games in pubs either. Football is way too expensive and oblivious to the recession so despite the TV revenues, it continues to overcharge. So even when prices are dropped for certain games, like ours recently, the habit of going to games is replaced by one of going to the pub. Casual fans become even more diluted as generic football-watchers. Why see Villa-Wigan for £15-26, when you can see Man Utd in the Red Lion for free?

[Smithy]

What does this mean tv in general? BBC iPlayer doesn't allow me to watch certain programmes due to territorial rights, surely that means that I should be able to watch them now? Same goes for things like The Daily Show or Colbert Report.

I think that's an artistic rights issue. It's the same for me here (obviously!). The judge in this case said that a football match didn't count as intellectual property.

I'd love to see everything available worldwide (for a fee, of course). It's moving that way! Hooray!

Correct - basically the judge said Sky can't 'copyright' a football match and claim the same protection as the creators of, for example, The Daily Show.  He did however say that they could copyright the video intros, music etc.  So if the Sky intro was part of the foreign programme, then they wouldn't be allowed to show THAT in the UK.

[E I Adio]

What does this mean tv in general? BBC iPlayer doesn't allow me to watch certain programmes due to territorial rights, surely that means that I should be able to watch them now? Same goes for things like The Daily Show or Colbert Report.

I think that's an artistic rights issue. It's the same for me here (obviously!). The judge in this case said that a football match didn't count as intellectual property.

I'd love to see everything available worldwide (for a fee, of course). It's moving that way! Hooray!

Correct - basically the judge said Sky can't 'copyright' a football match and claim the same protection as the creators of, for example, The Daily Show.  He did however say that they could copyright the video intros, music etc. So if the Sky intro was part of the foreign programme, then they wouldn't be allowed to show THAT in the UK.

An added bonus. I just gets better.

[Hookeysmith]

Fuck sky and the premier league greedy bastards

thats all i wanted to say - thank you

[Rudy Can't Fail]

My understanding is it's now fine for 'individuals' to buy cards from foreign TV stations but not pubs. The landlady effectively lost her right to broadcast in her pub using the Greek card.

[Concrete John]

So, the basics are that Sky sell these rights overseas, but the EU freedom of trade laws mean that they can't prevent them being sold back into the UK?

I simply can't see them not finding a way around that!!

[itbrvilla]

Reducing the power of Sky can only have a long term positive effect on football in this country.

True, although I'm not sure that allowing 3.00 games to be shown on TV the way forward, I'm sure that the amount of pubs showing Villa games live is having a big impact on the gates.

Perhaps they should reduce the price?

I agree, although unless all clubs do it we're just going to fall further behind.

Making it more affordable will get people in the habit of attending games and will more likely spend more cash or merchandise, beer, pies etc.  I was always reluctant to buy anything at a match knowing it alreadt cost me about £40-45  already.

[Simon Ward]

So, the basics are that Sky sell these rights overseas, but the EU freedom of trade laws mean that they can't prevent them being sold back into the UK?

I simply can't see them not finding a way around that!!

If it threatens to destroy their business model completely I'm sure they will find a way.

[Chris Smith]

My understanding is it's now fine for 'individuals' to buy cards from foreign TV stations but not pubs. The landlady effectively lost her right to broadcast in her pub using the Greek card.

She is waiting for the High Court to endorse the ruling before reinstating her decoder.

[Nev]

If the product is available at a cheaper price people will pay the cheaper price, be it a casual or cash strapped fan to watch in the pub or the landlord to save money and also attract more customers. It's basic market economics. In selling the PL all over the world the league has inadvertantly painted itself into a corner. Despite claims to the contrary, with the exception of a few clubs, the PL is uncompetative and unattractive to many fans and this is being reflected in attendances. The product is now being beamed back to the pubs to be watched by the very people who were sold as part of the attraction in the first place.

At the heart of this is greed, a greed that blinkered Sky into over charging pubs for their service, something they wouldn't do to the individual customer and may force them to re-assess their commercial business model.

The clubs also need to do the same.

And Moxey and all the others who made their fortune on the gravy train deserve everything they get.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

My understanding is it's now fine for 'individuals' to buy cards from foreign TV stations but not pubs. The landlady effectively lost her right to broadcast in her pub using the Greek card.

She is waiting for the High Court to endorse the ruling before reinstating her decoder.

She can reinstate her Greek decoder but not broadcast as she'd be breaching the PL copyright.

There was one other loser on Tuesday: Karen Murphy, the Portsmouth publican who started the case. Tired of the high prices Sky charges pubs and clubs, she went off and bought the original Greek satellite decoder card that caused all the trouble in the first place.

Unfortunately, the court held that pubs – who are in effect trying to profit from getting cheaper foreign decoder cards – can't benefit. That's because she was breaching the copyright of the Premier League, not by showing live coverage of the football match itself, but by broadcasting the Premier League's logo or anthem without permission.

The sanguine Premier League is already noting that it will be easy to stop publicans using its footage without permission by ensuring that its logo is on screen all the time, or its theme music played every time a replay is aired.

[paulcomben]

A very interesting ruling that completely screws up the business model for Sky & ESPN & FAPL.

Not quite the Premier League as they are selling "the product" to the foreign TV companies that are being subscribed to in this/these case/s.

Yes, but Sky & ESPN will not pay anything like as much for non-exclusive rights so in fact the FAPL will also suffer severely.

And to those saying, basically, tough shit greedy buggers, Villa would suffer too with dramatically reduced reveues meaning much worse players etc.