Formation Dilemma

[QBVILLA]

Personally I think we're having problems in an attacking sense due to this new found obsession of playing wide players on their weaker foot.This wasn't such a bad thing when we had Downing and Young as both could use their weaker foot pretty effectively.As it is we have players cutting back inside and running into traffic.None moreso than yesterday when we were up against a 5 man midfield.Both Gabby and Bent are more potent when we have players hitting the byline and cutting the ball back.Simple, basic footballing ideals of playing players in their best positions, rather than an issue of technical formations.

[villadelph]

As far as I'm concerned a 4-2-3-1 is just a staggered 4-5-1 and up until this point has very little success. I'm just trying to raise the point that we should try something new against Wigan, whether its a 4-4-2 or not.

[nigel]

Is the 4-5-1 our ideal formation?

No.  Next question?

We've played 4-5-1 since MON took over and it works pretty well with the right players. You have to have 2 quality midfield wingers for it to work effectively, though.
We haven't got that at the moment so the loan striker is, literally, on his own.
If we only use one midfield/winger then that's what he has to do, be a winger. Albrighton and, more so, N'Zogbia cut in far to much, they should both attack the fullback and get those crosses in for Bent and Gabby.

[oldtimernow]

Would playing Warnock in midfield give us some much needed bite whilst also taking away some of his liability as a full back.

Wasn't he Blackburn's player of the year in that role?

don't know who to play at Left back though

[Chris Smith]

The rules today, that have all but outlawed tackling, preclude the need for the old fashioned physical midfield player. What you need is players with the energy and stamina to harry opponents, close them down quickly and hurry them into giving the ball away. The sort of thing Darren Fletcher does so well for Manu.

[glasses]

And Karl Henry for Wolves, although he loves a tackle too! Is also what Milner did so well for us.

[oldtimernow]

The rules today, that have all but outlawed tackling, preclude the need for the old fashioned physical midfield player. What you need is players with the energy and stamina to harry opponents, close them down quickly and hurry them into giving the ball away. The sort of thing Darren Fletcher does so well for Manu.

We had 4 trying to do that in the first half against QPR and not that well too

[villadelph]

The rules today, that have all but outlawed tackling, preclude the need for the old fashioned physical midfield player. What you need is players with the energy and stamina to harry opponents, close them down quickly and hurry them into giving the ball away. The sort of thing Darren Fletcher does so well for Manu.

I don't think athleticism is our issue. Delph is athletic, just had a rough day on the ball yesterday. We don't have an offense worth defending. Teams realize that if they high pressure us we immediately fall back, and are willing to do so. We will sit on our heels all day.

I'm tired of waiting 60 minutes for attacking football. While other teams use the first 15 minutes to absolutely bombard us, we waste it away. We have no offensive threat. If we forced teams to defend us, via the 4-4-2 I think results would begin to change in our favor.

[Tuscans]

This would be my team and formation against Wigan.

                            Given

Hutton       Collins         Dunne        Warnock


                  Petrov         Jenas

Agbonlahor         Ireland                Bannan

                             Bent

Subs : Guzan Herd Clarke Delph Albrighton N'Zogbia Delfouneso

I would swap Hutton for Herd if he has another stinker ( Scottish Cafu, pffffffftttt )                                                   

[Tuscans]

Would playing Warnock in midfield give us some much needed bite whilst also taking away some of his liability as a full back.

Wasn't he Blackburn's player of the year in that role?

don't know who to play at Left back though

Clarke??

[supertom]

I'd play a 4-3-3.

I'd have Clark anchoring in midfield then Jenas and Petrov/Delph either side of him.

As for the front 3, I'd go for Gabby and Bent. The other wide position I'd go with Bannan to play free. Gabby's played the wide role pretty well this season and offered width, whilst managing to get in the box effectively too. There'd be a risk of being narrow, but I think we'd be more solid in midfield, whilst our fullbacks are better going forward than they are at the back. I want to see us attack more, because Warnock and Hutton are frightening in defence. Thankfully Given, Dunney and on the whole, Collins have held firm this season.

If it doesn't work out for Bannan there, then I'd try Ireland. Or of course if we need to open the pitch out a bit, I'd get N'Zogbia to play as an out and out winger, or Albrighton.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

If there's one thing this thread highlights is the dilemma facing McLeish. Based on current form he has to play Gabby, Bent our star striker must also be included. How much longer he continues with N'Zogbia I've no idea but if he doesn't vastly improve against Wigan, then a time on the bench is awaiting.

Midfield is our major problem; is it Delph's fault Stan goes walk about leaving him exposed, then we have young Barry and Ireland, two gifted players that appear to be on the same wavelength. Can we play them both? I'd like to think so, especially at Villa Park where hopefully we'd be spending most of our time attacking and trying to supply Bent.

Thinking about it, bollocks, drop N'Zogbia, he really hasn't done enough to warrant a place and go 4-3-1-2 with Petrov Delph and Bannan (Stan and Delph holding), Bannan box to box and give Ireland a free role behind the strikers but make sure he puts a bloody shift in.

[Monty]

It's all very well playing the right players even in the right system, but if we so clearly have an endemic issue with our football philosophy there's no point. We had a damn talented attacking midfield trio yesterday, and none of them got any of the ball in the first half because the ball would constantly go sailing over their heads from the defence and the goalkeeper. We need to make an effort to start playing from the back properly - the centre backs not just fleeing from the keeper when he gets the ball, for instance - or there's no point in playing any combination of midfielders really.

[villadelph]

It's all very well playing the right players even in the right system, but if we so clearly have an endemic issue with our football philosophy there's no point. We had a damn talented attacking midfield trio yesterday, and none of them got any of the ball in the first half because the ball would constantly go sailing over their heads from the defence and the goalkeeper. We need to make an effort to start playing from the back properly - the centre backs not just fleeing from the keeper when he gets the ball, for instance - or there's no point in playing any combination of midfielders really.

An excellent point, one that I tried to address in the original post. Surely with two forwards atop the Collins clearance we've become accustomed to would more likely land in our favor.. no?

[ozzjim]

Which is why Bannan would probably see more ball playing deeper with the defence told to give it to him to playmake, a little like Xavi, but obviously not on that level. Heskey in the side helps us retain the ball too, which is a bit of a dilemma.