Is the club in a worse state now than when Lerner took over?

[Smithy]

I don't think a comparison with the club before he bought it is a fair one to make. 

A much better comparison would be with where we think the club would be today if he hadn't bought it.

[itbrvilla]

Now: Massive unsustainable wage bill, massive debt vs Some of the best training facilities in Europe. 
Then: Lack of investment, poor training facilities vs little debt, club sustainable.

Both squads comparable.

And where would we be without those massive wages and the money spent on players?

Strange comment considering many on here and elsewhere feel we massively overpaid players and spent to much on shite in comparison to other clubs.

[Villafirst]

We're in a better state, I think. A more talented squad, with higher valued players, and we're starting from a stronger base than when Lerner took over and O'Neill was appointed - a squad which finished top half, compared to one which just missed relegation.

The main difference for me is that, this time five years ago I had the feeling that the only way was up for Villa, there was genuine optimism. Now, I think our future doesn't look quite so positive.

We had a close shave with Relegation last season - I know we finished 9th but people were bricking it up until the last 2 games - we'll finish in the lower half this season which will continue the downward trend. Fact is, the so-called 5 year plan failed and RL and Co have no Plan B. Apart from a few cosmetic changes (Holte Pub and Holte Suite) the ground is still at the same capacity. Yes we have great training facilities, but I'd much rather have a great team on the pitch. Going backwards fast under RL.

[Steve R]

I'd say the club is far better off.

The things that really endure have all improved markedly. Most notably Bodymoor Heath, but also Villa Park.

I am not overly worried about debt. As far as I understand it (not very far) the monies are owed either to Lerner himself, or a Lerner family trust. As such they are not likely to be called in, and would be rolled into the price should Lerner decide to sell. Whatever sum that would be, I'd guess that we'd still be a fair proposition.

The real questions would be to whom, and where are they getting the money from. That is no bigger a worry under Lerner than it was under Doug.

Managers and teams come and go, in our case usually about every 3 or 4 years. Zero to hero and back again has always been our forte. It is a shame that we didn't quite make hero last time around, but we are still in a better position to go further next time than we otherwise would have been.

We were sinking fast under Doug, and he didn't seem to have a clue what to do next other than sell. Right now we are merely shipping water.

Regardless of Man City's lottery win, I wouldn't agree that the 'top teams' as a whole have forged even further ahead. We may have regressed, but so have Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, arguably more so than us over the last 5 years.

[Chris Smith]

I don't think a comparison with the club before he bought it is a fair one to make. 

A much better comparison would be with where we think the club would be today if he hadn't bought it.

Good question, as badly of as Everton finacially but lacking the loyalty to a manager who keeps them above water, is my guess.

[Risso]

I don't think a comparison with the club before he bought it is a fair one to make. 

A much better comparison would be with where we think the club would be today if he hadn't bought it.

How about another comparison - to where we thought we'd be after five years of Lerner ownership.

[bertlambshank]

The Cleveland Browns are 30.4 million under the cap.
That is the third lowest in the NFL.
Looks like we are not the only ones to tighten the belt.

[TopDeck113]

For me the difference is under Ellis we had become used to the cheque book being grudgingly opened from time to time, but inexplicably being kept firmly shut when we had a team that perhaps needed that extra splash of cash to deliver something tangible. 

Under Lerner the cash was spent, sometimes with gay abandon, and not always wisely, before, perhaps inevitably, once again the cheque book has been shut.

Either way, we haven't won any silverware that matters. 

To answer the question, I don't think the club is in a worse state (and as I'd have put as down as one of the favourites for relegation if Ellis/DOL had stayed in sit, we're probably better off), but rather we've reverted back to the Aston Villa of much of my supporting life: one of the also-rans.  The difference is that after the promise of the first three years of the Lerner tenure, the palpable sense of disappointment has yet to harden into that dull ache of inevitability that were the overwhelming feature of the Ellis years.

[HK Villan]

We shouldn't be that concerned about debt if they are shareholder loans.... which could even be considered quasi equity.  Lerner is hardly likely to send the boys round to collect on his own assets, after all.  From some of the earlier comments on here it's as if people are complaining about him putting cash into the club.

[brian green]

Bigad82 do those figures you quote mean only too other teams in the NFL owe more money?   Does "under the cap" mean that a limit is placed on how much can be borrowed?

[bertlambshank]

Bigad82 do those figures you quote mean only too other teams in the NFL owe more money?   Does "under the cap" mean that a limit is placed on how much can be borrowed?

No,how much you can spend,I think.

[Fuse]

I think what we lack is leadership. Randy doesn;t speak and the fans don't see PF as a leader due t his lack of experience.

If we understood what the plan was once we get the wages down then we might all get behind the club. Whilst we jsut see cuts and no sign of anyhting but, we will continue to see mediocrity as the target.

In my view the reason we don't get any of this is because Randy is in financial trouble and they don't wan to admit that. He is obviously battening down the hatched in the hope of recovering his wealth when the financial markets start to recover.

[Holy Trinity]

Bigad82 do those figures you quote mean only too other teams in the NFL owe more money?   Does "under the cap" mean that a limit is placed on how much can be borrowed?

nfl has a wage cap. i.e if the browns are allowed 70million on wages randy has only spent 40million which means they wont be competitive this season. only 2 teams spent less