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Author Topic: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch  (Read 230598 times)

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #345 on: September 10, 2018, 08:22:46 PM »

At the time my heart bled for this man earning a fortune, who apparently couldn't contact anyone who speak Spanish to help him. It still does, as it does for all footballers. Incidentally, Sir Graham said that one of the reasons he couldn't get much out of Angel two years later was that he was still moping about his supposed ill-treatment. 

That's a bit like Gregory saying that Stan Collymore was earming too much money to be really depressed.

It isn't, but never mind.

I think it is too.  It's never good to dismiss other people's problems, especially - seemingly - because they have plenty of money.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #346 on: September 10, 2018, 08:35:29 PM »

At the time my heart bled for this man earning a fortune, who apparently couldn't contact anyone who speak Spanish to help him. It still does, as it does for all footballers. Incidentally, Sir Graham said that one of the reasons he couldn't get much out of Angel two years later was that he was still moping about his supposed ill-treatment. 

That's a bit like Gregory saying that Stan Collymore was earming too much money to be really depressed.

It isn't, but never mind.

I think it is too.  It's never good to dismiss other people's problems, especially - seemingly - because they have plenty of money.

It's nothing like it. There's absolutely no suggestion that SGT dismissed Angel's feelings because he had plenty of money. He simply said that Angel was still moping about something that happened two years before SGT returned to the club.  There's no dismissal of any sort. It's not even close to Gregory's views on Collymore which were ignorant in the extreme.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #347 on: September 10, 2018, 08:37:28 PM »
It's nothing like it. There's absolutely no suggestion that SGT dismissed Angel's feelings because he had plenty of money. He simply said that Angel was still moping about something that happened two years before SGT returned to the club.  There's no dismissal of any sort. It's not even close to Gregory's views on Collymore which were ignorant in the extreme.
I wasn't talking about SGT.

Offline Chinchilla Bathhouse

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #348 on: September 10, 2018, 08:43:58 PM »
It's nothing like it. There's absolutely no suggestion that SGT dismissed Angel's feelings because he had plenty of money. He simply said that Angel was still moping about something that happened two years before SGT returned to the club.  There's no dismissal of any sort. It's not even close to Gregory's views on Collymore which were ignorant in the extreme.
I wasn't talking about SGT.

It reads as if you're agreeing that SGT's treatment of Angel was akin to Gregory's of Collymore. Which it wasn't.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #349 on: September 10, 2018, 08:46:12 PM »
It reads as if you're agreeing that SGT's treatment of Angel was akin to Gregory's of Collymore. Which it wasn't.
Well I'm not.  I was simply disagreeing with Dave's remarks, that's all.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #350 on: September 10, 2018, 09:07:22 PM »
It reads as if you're agreeing that SGT's treatment of Angel was akin to Gregory's of Collymore. Which it wasn't.
Well I'm not.  I was simply disagreeing with Dave's remarks, that's all.

Angel's problems, such as they were, weren't illness-related. They were down to his belief that he wasn't looked after on a round the clock basis two years earlier, which as I said, is/was something that no player got at the Villa. I couldn't then, and still can't, understand why, if he felt he or his family needed extra attention, he didn't pay for it.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #351 on: September 10, 2018, 09:14:12 PM »
It reads as if you're agreeing that SGT's treatment of Angel was akin to Gregory's of Collymore. Which it wasn't.
Well I'm not.  I was simply disagreeing with Dave's remarks, that's all.

I disagree, too. Cluelessness, like many traits, is not obviated by wealth. He was an asset, he should've been treated as such.

Online Drummond

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #352 on: September 10, 2018, 10:20:17 PM »
I guess the question is whether he asked for help. He should have done. If he wasn't happy 2 years later he should have requested a transfer. Or just get on with it.

If you're on that sort of money, you can afford any type of support you need. You just need to ask.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #353 on: September 10, 2018, 10:48:44 PM »
I guess the question is whether he asked for help. He should have done. If he wasn't happy 2 years later he should have requested a transfer. Or just get on with it.

If you're on that sort of money, you can afford any type of support you need. You just need to ask.

But if you don't know who you can ask, it doesn't matter two jots how much money you have or haven't got.

Say you bought a race car. Or a race horse. Something of that ilk. You'd blown a not inconsiderable fortune on it, because that's how much it cost on the contemporary market. You'd hope for a return on your investment, be it either financial or accolades. Would the best route to realising this be, "fuck it, it cost enough, job obviously done"?

I'd even say that the more you pay, the farther you should go in ensuring that they're looked after, be that by mechanic, trainer or personal dogsbody. Their ineptitude as a functioning mortal is irrelevant.

Offline Ads

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #354 on: September 10, 2018, 11:30:52 PM »
You ask your agent.

Online eamonn

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #355 on: September 11, 2018, 12:13:53 AM »
Yep, Ryu/Forsyth should have kept his client sweet.

Online Drummond

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #356 on: September 11, 2018, 12:47:09 PM »
I guess the question is whether he asked for help. He should have done. If he wasn't happy 2 years later he should have requested a transfer. Or just get on with it.

If you're on that sort of money, you can afford any type of support you need. You just need to ask.

But if you don't know who you can ask, it doesn't matter two jots how much money you have or haven't got.

Say you bought a race car. Or a race horse. Something of that ilk. You'd blown a not inconsiderable fortune on it, because that's how much it cost on the contemporary market. You'd hope for a return on your investment, be it either financial or accolades. Would the best route to realising this be, "fuck it, it cost enough, job obviously done"?

I'd even say that the more you pay, the farther you should go in ensuring that they're looked after, be that by mechanic, trainer or personal dogsbody. Their ineptitude as a functioning mortal is irrelevant.

Which is why we changed it to great effect.

However, you'd expect anyone with half the brain of a cat to realise that if they ain't happy they should ask someone for help. Agent, Manager, PFA, Chairman, Captain, fellow players.

Offline Risso

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #357 on: September 11, 2018, 01:19:37 PM »
According to Gregory, Angel got on with the job just fine:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/angel-finds-mercy-for-a-family-dedication-9240293.html

'Angel's assertion that "every hour, every day, I am working to make my game better" is underlined by his manager. "Juan is in most mornings at nine o'clock, in the weight room and the gym, working out, doing extra. He came back early in the summer because he needed to get himself a good pre-season here. He has really gone about his job in a top-class manner because he wants so much to succeed. He has drive and hunger. He is a good pro, a very conscientious boy." '

And Angel himself said "This season is my real start with Villa. I have prepared well, I am happy, confident."

He had a good season in 01/02, and again in 03/04, but didn't in the intervening 02/03 season because he was still moping? Nobody had a good season in 2002/03.  Crouch and Allback both struggled, and our top scorer was an ageing Dion Dublin with 10 goals.  I don't suppose anybody was happy at being nearly relegated, but I just don't buy it that Angel had his bottom lip out because of what had gone on two years before.  The biggest problem in that team was that it wasn't settled, and included dross like UDLC, Mark Kinsella and Oyvind Leonhardsen.

Online eamonn

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #358 on: September 11, 2018, 02:41:18 PM »
Blimey, you can tell it's international week when we're getting such mileage out of this old story!

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Ex- Villa Players still playing watch
« Reply #359 on: September 11, 2018, 05:05:08 PM »
According to Gregory, Angel got on with the job just fine:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/angel-finds-mercy-for-a-family-dedication-9240293.html

'Angel's assertion that "every hour, every day, I am working to make my game better" is underlined by his manager. "Juan is in most mornings at nine o'clock, in the weight room and the gym, working out, doing extra. He came back early in the summer because he needed to get himself a good pre-season here. He has really gone about his job in a top-class manner because he wants so much to succeed. He has drive and hunger. He is a good pro, a very conscientious boy." '

And Angel himself said "This season is my real start with Villa. I have prepared well, I am happy, confident."

He had a good season in 01/02, and again in 03/04, but didn't in the intervening 02/03 season because he was still moping? Nobody had a good season in 2002/03.  Crouch and Allback both struggled, and our top scorer was an ageing Dion Dublin with 10 goals.  I don't suppose anybody was happy at being nearly relegated, but I just don't buy it that Angel had his bottom lip out because of what had gone on two years before.  The biggest problem in that team was that it wasn't settled, and included dross like UDLC, Mark Kinsella and Oyvind Leonhardsen.


Have it your way. Graham Taylor was lying, on tape and on the record. I don't care and I don't suppose he would have that much.

 


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