Hillsborough Disaster petition

[Nelly]

Done.

[darren woolley]

Done.

[lovejoy]

Is there also a petition for those who turned up on the day ticketless and rushed the gates to own up? And how many of them who learned their lesson did the same thing in Istanbul?

[dave.woodhall]

Is there also a petition for those who turned up on the day ticketless and rushed the gates to own up? And how many of them who learned their lesson did the same thing in Istanbul?

There's always one...

[lovejoy]

Sorry can I add that any cover up or delaying tactics by the Government is obviously a disgrase and disrespectful to the families of the bereaved. Nobody should go to football and have to by confronted with this.

[dave.woodhall]

Sorry can I add that any cover up or delaying tactics by the Government is obviously a disgrase and disrespectful to the families of the bereaved. Nobody should go to football and have to by confronted with this.

You can. You can also accept that there was no "rushed the gates" ticketless fans outside David Duckinfield's lies and Kelvin MacKenzie's warped imagination.

[lovejoy]

Ok lets not go down this route. I had always thought that the crush was caused by fans entering an enclosure they had no tickets for when a gate was opened by the police. If the documents reveal that only ticketed fans were in the ground at the time of the disaster then it seems I have bought the official line/lie.

[dave.woodhall]

Ok lets not go down this route. I had always thought that the crush was caused by fans entering an enclosure they had no tickets for when a gate was opened by the police. If the documents reveal that only ticketed fans were in the ground at the time of the disaster then it seems I have bought the official line/lie.

The end was under capacity at 3.06. There were plenty of tickets available and the Taylor Report found no evidence of a significant number of ticketless supporters at the ground.

[Concrete John]

Dave, you seem to know much more detail about this than I do, so can I ask a genuine question; if there weren't ticketless fans, then what caused the crush that saw 96 football fans killed?  Did the police let fans with tickets into the wrong part of the ground?

[dave.woodhall]

Dave, you seem to know much more detail about this than I do, so can I ask a genuine question; if there weren't ticketless fans, then what caused the crush that saw 96 football fans killed?  Did the police let fans with tickets into the wrong part of the ground?

Of the many mistakes that contributed, the final one was that were funneled into the area behind the goal, rather than into the half-empty sections to the sides.

[Small Rodent]

Can someone tell me what this would actually achieve?

Read this article in The Graun.

This is the bit that says it all for me:

"In March, the Hillsborough panel said they would look at previously concealed documents. But you can see why the families object to the idea that a panel must decide what they can and cannot see. The system has piled years and years of additional needless cruelty on the Hillsborough families. The British obsession with secrecy and protection for those in power has stretched beyond all humane grounds the process of finding out, once and for all, what happened (and who was responsible) at an FA Cup semi-final in Sheffield more than two decades ago."

[Concrete John]

But these were ticketed fans, not 'yobs' rushing the gates?

My own view on this has always been, and I make no apologies for this, that there is combined blame between the police for failing to handle the crowd and also the fans who created the crush.  You can put them into the wrong area, but were they forced to press forward as they did without tought for their own safety and the safety of those ahead of them?  The fact there has then been a cover up, which I fully believe there has, to protect the police and shift the blame wholey on the fans is disgusting.

So that's why my name has gone on the petition, because those responsible should be known and those innocent stated as such.  The problem is that it has become so emotive an issue that should they genuinely find the fans acted recklessly, it will be dismissed as a cover up again.

[pauliewalnuts]

You can put them into the wrong area, but were they forced to press forward as they did without tought for their own safety and the safety of those ahead of them? 

Yes they were - that's what happens when you funnel far too many people into too small an area.

[Risso]

I'm fairly sure that the families themselves would welcome whatever a report said, if every single bit of information was out in the public arena, as it should be.

[Stu]

But these were ticketed fans, not 'yobs' rushing the gates?

My own view on this has always been, and I make no apologies for this, that there is combined blame between the police for failing to handle the crowd and also the fans who created the crush.  You can put them into the wrong area, but were they forced to press forward as they did without tought for their own safety and the safety of those ahead of them?

I don't know how you can put individual thought processes on the crowd mentality. How many times have you followed a crowd of fellow fans in one direction, just because it seemed like they knew where they were going and it was in the general direction of where you needed to go? Someone didn't do their job properly and the way in which fans were kettled into cages to watch the game didn't help either. Any way you look at it, Hillsborough happened because it seemed to be ok to treat football supporters like shit.