Questions for Mr. Lerner Sir

[hawkeye]

If you were losing 20 million pounds this year *after* all the sales, what would you do? I think it is legitimate to ask questions about why tighter controls on the money were not kept early on, but my guess is that it was a real attempt to break into the CL. That did not work and so he began to rein it in during the last year of MON's reign because he did not trust him and was not getting a return on money spent. He is simply trying to reduce the wages to realistic levels. Not sure he should be blamed for it as 20 million is a great deal of money to anyone!

You have to ask how the hell did we get into this mess, the losses seem to stem from MON being given total control over players and contracts, so despite doubling revenue over the last 5 years and selling our best players we are now in austerity land. The General has been absent and we have a statement from the owner that talks about finance and finance only. Combine this with the apparent reduction in the owners net worth and you may have a clue as to why the natives appear restless.

[Villa'Zawg]

If you were losing 20 million pounds this year *after* all the sales, what would you do? I think it is legitimate to ask questions about why tighter controls on the money were not kept early on, but my guess is that it was a real attempt to break into the CL. That did not work and so he began to rein it in during the last year of MON's reign because he did not trust him and was not getting a return on money spent. He is simply trying to reduce the wages to realistic levels. Not sure he should be blamed for it as 20 million is a great deal of money to anyone!

Then don't lie to people about competing to win trophies and playing in the CL. £20m or £50m doesn't even buy a Premier League team a seat at the table.

[pauliewalnuts]

When they arrived here, not knowing a huge amount about the game, they had a manager in waiting, one who everyone told them (and still tells) was brilliant, and that we were lucky to have him.

Said manager - I believe - then said (in broad terms) "I'll take care of it" and became the man who handled all the stuff they didn't know about - basically, managing the lot.

If you look at it that way, it makes sense. It must have been extraordinarily convenient for them to have a "total control" manager in place when they needed to learn fast and hit the ground running.

Where the problem came was trusting him blindly (slight exaggeration, but you get my drift) for too long. By the time we found it it was a bad idea, the manager had thrown his toys out of his pram and flounced off, we had a crippling wage bill, a patchy squad, ageing players on big money, and had spent a fortune to hit a glass celing.

Alll that, I can understand, even if I don't agree with it (and I am thinking about the "blow the lot with Martin" thing primarily).

What I am far less impressed with is the way things have been handled over the last 12 months. I'd have thought that having spent such huge amounts of money, the priority when MON went would have been to ensure that we didn't throw away any of the progress we had already made.

Appointing Houllier was a thoughtful move in some ways, a very experienced continental manager, who understood the importance of things like scouting and shopping abroad. Appointing AM seems like a retrograde step, going back to MON's archaic form of football.

It is only one game, and I am not going to judge the bloke on that, but it struck me yesterday that it was like watching a MON team except without the crosses. The inevitable result of appointing a manager who has the same basic football ethos, except this time, he's got a much weaker squad and no money to spend.

I entirely understand the need to claw back some money and get the wage bill under control. However, we are doing it far too radically. I can see this squad struggling badly this season, no matter how much we don't want it to, I just can't see where the service to Bent will come from, or how we'll cope with even a few injuries.

We're firmly at risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we cut back too hard, and we'll throw away what remains of the progress made in the first five years and be back where we started, except in lots of debt.

Worrying.

[hawkeye]

Another point Pelty, at the point that you dont trust the Manager it is time to get rid, so why did he give MON more money to waste?

[Trinitymiddle]

We received about £35,000,000 for 2 alone and have spent about £13,000,000. allegedly we have repaid Randy some £15,000,000 in respect of a loan leaving us with at least £7,000,000 left BUT the manager has no money to spend. Bent and Makoun were purchased with the Milner cash in a moment of panic when things did look bad and relegation was a strong possibility.

So in an age when most mega rich owners are converting their debt in equity (in effect cancelling the money a club owes them), Randy hasn't converted ANY of his debt to equity, and is making AVFC pay him back. Is this right, and if so I guess Randy is either not as rich as we thought, or is losing interest.

[robbyfvillain]

If you were losing 20 million pounds this year *after* all the sales, what would you do? I think it is legitimate to ask questions about why tighter controls on the money were not kept early on, but my guess is that it was a real attempt to break into the CL. That did not work and so he began to rein it in during the last year of MON's reign because he did not trust him and was not getting a return on money spent. He is simply trying to reduce the wages to realistic levels. Not sure he should be blamed for it as 20 million is a great deal of money to anyone!

If we're losing £20m this year then things are clearly worse than we have been led to believe.

What happened to the list of players houlier was going to buy and the general talking about backing Mcleish which quite clearly was never going to happen. You have to admit this is misleading at best.

As far as blame who would you say is responsible for the finances of the club. Surely somebody would have been making forward projections of costs and how that looks against current revenues before making any purchases. At the end of the day surely the buck stops with Randy.

 

[willywombat]

Maybe he thought the bespectacled genius would understand the situation we were in and pull his head in for the greater good?

[pauliewalnuts]

Maybe he thought the bespectacled genius would understand the situation we were in and pull his head in for the greater good?

Whatever your opinion of the board, there's no doubt MON let them down badly.

[dave.woodhall]

We received about £35,000,000 for 2 alone and have spent about £13,000,000. allegedly we have repaid Randy some £15,000,000 in respect of a loan leaving us with at least £7,000,000 left BUT the manager has no money to spend. Bent and Makoun were purchased with the Milner cash in a moment of panic when things did look bad and relegation was a strong possibility.

So in an age when most mega rich owners are converting their debt in equity (in effect cancelling the money a club owes them), Randy hasn't converted ANY of his debt to equity, and is making AVFC pay him back. Is this right, and if so I guess Randy is either not as rich as we thought, or is losing interest.

Quote from: Daily Telegraph 5th March 2010
The new investment takes Lerner's total investment to £179 million since he bought the club in 2006, with £95 million in equity and a further £84 million in loans. The investment comes on top of the £62 million he paid for the club.
 
Lerner put £70 million into the club during the 2008-09 season, with a further £12.5 million at the start of this campaign. According to the accounts Lerner's loans to the club are unsecured and interest free, and repayable between 2016 and 2019.[/quote]

[pauliewalnuts]

We received about £35,000,000 for 2 alone and have spent about £13,000,000. allegedly we have repaid Randy some £15,000,000 in respect of a loan leaving us with at least £7,000,000 left BUT the manager has no money to spend. Bent and Makoun were purchased with the Milner cash in a moment of panic when things did look bad and relegation was a strong possibility.

So in an age when most mega rich owners are converting their debt in equity (in effect cancelling the money a club owes them), Randy hasn't converted ANY of his debt to equity, and is making AVFC pay him back. Is this right, and if so I guess Randy is either not as rich as we thought, or is losing interest.

Quote from: Daily Telegraph 5th March 2010
The new investment takes Lerner's total investment to £179 million since he bought the club in 2006, with £95 million in equity and a further £84 million in loans. The investment comes on top of the £62 million he paid for the club.
 
Lerner put £70 million into the club during the 2008-09 season, with a further £12.5 million at the start of this campaign. According to the accounts Lerner's loans to the club are unsecured and interest free, and repayable between 2016 and 2019.

Where on earth did all that money get spent?

[dave.woodhall]

When you consider Nigel Reo Coker cost us at least £15 million for no return, you start to realise.

[pauliewalnuts]

When you consider Nigel Reo Coker cost us at least £15 million for no return, you start to realise.

True, but it's not as if the club had no income.

[dave.woodhall]

When you consider Nigel Reo Coker cost us at least £15 million for no return, you start to realise.

True, but it's not as if the club had no income.

Yes, but an entire team like that. It's unreal. Then there's the Holte, Bodymoor Heath, the bits & pieces around the ground that we never notice but all add up.

[pauliewalnuts]

When you consider Nigel Reo Coker cost us at least £15 million for no return, you start to realise.

True, but it's not as if the club had no income.

Yes, but an entire team like that. It's unreal. Then there's the Holte, Bodymoor Heath, the bits & pieces around the ground that we never notice but all add up.

Even so, I am struggling to see where that much money would have gone.

[dave.woodhall]

When you consider Nigel Reo Coker cost us at least £15 million for no return, you start to realise.

True, but it's not as if the club had no income.

Yes, but an entire team like that. It's unreal. Then there's the Holte, Bodymoor Heath, the bits & pieces around the ground that we never notice but all add up.

Even so, I am struggling to see where that much money would have gone.

Me too, but this is football. Nothing makes sense.